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Old 01-04-2017, 12:58 PM   #16
Marcel Banziger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ketten09 View Post
If it was built as an Sd.Kfz.11 then that is what it should be restored as, otherwise it is not a restoration but a new build using original parts.

Just my personal opinion.
This answers it all.

And besides; you would only be fooling yourself if you are making it into something which it is clearly not. If you want a 250 than buy a 250. Simple as that.
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Old 01-04-2017, 02:09 PM   #17
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Me again I just want to add some aspects:

Just a brief introduction: I am in the vehicle scene for nearly 20 years now... mostly german ones of course. I know "some" collectors and most of them are also drivers and not just owners of museums (mostly VW166, VW82, Krads, Kettenkrads and recently also bigge ones like Demags and stuff). I own a Zündapp KS 750 and a VW 166. So i know a little what i am talking about.

Vehicles are not decorations or an KC estate... lots of guys talking about that stuff have now experience how difficult it is. It is senseless to discuss such topics with modellers and award or uniform collectors and people like that.

What do you think how much of the Kfz11 would be original except the frame? All would have to be rebuilt. And gathering original parts... what else is this than another puzzle? So one part, the frame, would be original Kfz11... and what about the chain for example... or the engine. When he has the engine of a true 251... wouldn't it be unfair for the engine, in some sense the heart of a vehicle, that it has to serve in a Kfz11? Or if he gets the Einheits-cabin like in the pic... and this was originaly a Opel Blitz???
Do some really think one can gather all original Kfz 11 part??? Haha... not in a life!
Does anybody really think you can get all the wooden parts of the superstructure in original...

Do some here really know what is means to restore or just own an original WW2 vehicle???? Money???

And repros... do some of you have the sligtest sense about using original parts for a running vehicle? For example Zündapp KS 750, a real common vehicle and nothing special like a 251 or Kfz11... an original air cleaner is about 3000.. Euros. When you drive your vehicle it is completly damaged after some years of use. But hey, you cannot use a repro part on an original vehicle... haha, nonsense.
Oh my god... have i mentioned that all drivers use recent produced tires... and the gasoline is also new.

Of course rebuilding a vehicle with original parts is desireable and premium league... but it is almost impossible. Maybe you had luck and found a complete vehicle once... but those who own vehicles know how common that is... haha.

Discuss this theme in first instance with yourself... and then talk to other owners of vehicles. Whatever you do, either the 251 or the Kfz11... both will be made up with reporparts, parts that were not originally 251 or Kfz11... and a puzzle in the end. So what shalls... do what YOU like to! You are in love with the 251 and regarding the financial risk you take it is also the beter solution. So 251!
I take part at vehicle meetings since the early 2000.... and we drivers know all to well those guys. Thats the reason why most of them even don't come close to the vehicles nor will get a ride on them... cause we are fed up with arguments and discussions like "Hey, this is the wrong shade of Dunkelgelb" or "Oh, you used 13mm bolts here... that is not correct!". I prefer to take ladies... look better and do not argue, they just enjoy the ride


Clear the ring!
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restoring
Old 01-04-2017, 03:14 PM   #18
spaltring
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hello Albrecher,
you are correct in what you wrote, just wanted to add this, about tyres;
i have searched 3 years for 7.5x20 nato profiele tyres i found some old stock, but not from war ,now i heard they will reproduce it in an east block country so somewhere we have to put water with our wine.
(its also a matter of safety)
i know what you told about for example the yellow zandfarbe or other paint , people forget one thing that
first it was war , and paint didn't come from ONLY one factory they used even green paint from Russia when they where in Russia , at the end the production line delivered even only in primer , someone told me (wasn't able to check this)that delivery of truck without spare tyres...
somethimes you have to wait years to find the needed Original part it took me 3.5 years to find a olbad luftfilter end war time i payed big but have one partly in Original zandfarbe....
i think with some people their prior is to make money out of restored stuff and some try to do it in a way of being historicaly correct (what isn't easy Always)
anyway harrison have to decide for himself whats prior for him, but i would know what i would do (remember the vehicle sale in Bastogne collection guy arend) lots of bazar ,afterwar items introduced or foake pfff just for the tourist wow good but for those who knows about this some stuff was restored to norms to cry ...
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Old 01-04-2017, 03:26 PM   #19
Marcel Banziger
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Understandable that the majority of parts is all postwar/repro and that the majority of vehicles out there are all made with, for the most, new parts but if you have a chassis of a Kfz11 than why make something out of it what it is clearly not?? That has nothing to do with using new made parts to complete a vehicle in running order, it has to do with staying true to what you have in hands....which is in this case an original chassis for a Kfz11. It is perhaps not as sexy and appealing as a 250 but I would say: be happy and proud that you actually own an original KfZ11
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the dilemma
Old 01-04-2017, 03:54 PM   #20
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Default the dilemma

hi

first of all congrats that you can acquire a genuine sdkfz 11 chassis

if its a late style 11 like the one on the pic with the Einheitscab then it is far more rarer than a 251 Ausf D ( I guess that is what you would like to "build" as 251 ??)
A genuine 251 D has become "pretty common" nowadays on shows and is less "sexy" than a late style 11 IMHO....although I am a great fan of the 251 D

but it is not just the bodywork that differs the 251 from the 11 ,
also technically they are different too.....especially the steering mechanisme. ( there is a slight difference in weight ratio between an 8 to 14mm armoured body or just some wooden planks and sheet metal .
I know an 11 that was restored as 251 D and it steers pretty tuff.

Restoring German WW II vehicles is a totally different ball game and restorers always have to make compromises in achieving their goals because they cant buy all the missing parts at Wal-Mart
......using reproparts is rather inevitable restoring German stuff.

My suggestion is that you should set a time table on how long the resto job may take ( as we don't live forever ),
then make an inventory on the parts still to acquire to make a 251 and a 11.....then see what type matches best with your time table.

Since all the bodyparts are bolted on the chassis you can always swap the 11 chassis when you ever should find a genuine 251 chassis.
in the meantime you already had your fun restoring and driving the machine in whatever configuration.

cheers
bullitt
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Old 01-05-2017, 01:37 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullitt View Post
......using reproparts is rather inevitable restoring German stuff.

My suggestion is that you should set a time table on how long the resto job may take ( as we don't live forever ),
then make an inventory on the parts still to acquire to make a 251 and a 11.....then see what type matches best with your time table.

bullitt
Good point... it is all about driving!!!
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SdKfz 11 vs 251
Old 01-05-2017, 07:09 AM   #22
zundappuk
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Default SdKfz 11 vs 251

A friend of mine is close to completing his late war Sdkfz 11 with Einheits fahrerhaus and he assures me that late war versions used the same angled steering as the 251. So, no need to modify it if that is what you have. Also consider that in some countries you cannot own armoured vehicles (maybe just cut-outs in armour), just a thought for when you have to think about selling it.......
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Old 01-07-2017, 10:08 PM   #23
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Hey guys...

Just to answer some of your questions...

The vehicle is currently a runner.

Original chassis, original engine, tracks, etc.

The only thing that needs to be re-done is the upper superstructure.

No pics for the moment...as I cannot share. But yes...this late-type does have the same angled steering as the 251D.



Mike
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Old 01-10-2017, 08:17 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zundappuk View Post
A friend of mine is close to completing his late war Sdkfz 11 with Einheits fahrerhaus and he assures me that late war versions used the same angled steering as the 251. So, no need to modify it if that is what you have. Also consider that in some countries you cannot own armoured vehicles (maybe just cut-outs in armour), just a thought for when you have to think about selling it.......
Hi Zundappuk,

I sent you a PM earlier...



Mike
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Old 01-10-2017, 09:55 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harrison987 View Post
Hey guys...

Just to answer some of your questions...

The vehicle is currently a runner.

Original chassis, original engine, tracks, etc.

The only thing that needs to be re-done is the upper superstructure.

No pics for the moment...as I cannot share. But yes...this late-type does have the same angled steering as the 251D.



Mike
Do it then, go ahead!! And share some nice pics


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Old 01-12-2017, 12:44 PM   #26
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Either way sounds like a fun project to watch!
Can't wait to see some pics!

-Jeremy
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Old 09-15-2017, 02:23 AM   #27
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Hello dear,

Do you have some pictures ?

Brgds.
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