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Old 04-21-2017, 04:52 AM   #46
piters77
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Hello,
I did not find any pictures of k22 apart from NASM:
https://airandspace.si.edu/sites/def...?itok=9YS4Oi78

I do not know if it is correct and shows K22??
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Old 04-21-2017, 11:02 AM   #47
Funksammler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piters77 View Post
Hello,
I did not find any pictures of k22 apart from NASM:
https://airandspace.si.edu/sites/def...?itok=9YS4Oi78

I do not know if it is correct and shows K22??
No, that is an adapted DK12 (drei-achsen K-12) used in the V2 rocket program.

It basically consisted of 3 LKu4 "Kurskreisels" fitted on a wooden board, one for each axis of control (one of the "Kurskreisels" is missing). it also has 3 LKM12 "Mischgeräte" fitted to the board.

The three rate gyros would have been fitted separately in the rocket...

regards,

Funksammler
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Old 07-03-2017, 08:54 AM   #48
Dufleuve
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A very nice update on Hellschreiber site.

The unidentified control box with the switch on top could definitely be the Rgk 120a.

Also has a nice pic of the U120 internals.
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Old 07-04-2017, 02:44 AM   #49
piters77
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Really great update. On eBay was for sale frame for Psch 120a:
http://www.ebay.de/itm/WW2-German-Lu...p2047675.l2557
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Where are the Umformers
Old 08-15-2017, 02:04 PM   #50
mig2830
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Default Where are the Umformers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dufleuve View Post
Well,

1) The device on the side of the FuG16 frame looks like a big "brechkupplung".
Would make sense to connect a device hanging from the canopy, in case you have to jettison it to jump out. The Psh printer ???

2) More K22/23 boxes are fixed on both sides of the pilot seat back. I see K3 and another widerstand kasten.

3) the backplanes for the radios look more like pressed steel plates to me.

4) But were are the Umformers ???

Thanks again Piotr for the link.

Cheers
Hi,

My guess is that the Umformers are in the nose of the plane. If you look at the wiring in the gun bay, you clearly see some black and red heavy gauge wires going into the compartment in front of the gun bay.

This also make sense with respect to W&B, the plane must be quite tail heavy, let alone the LRM12 at the far end with its 11 kg!!!

Best regards
mig2830
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Old 09-18-2017, 02:16 PM   #51
mig2830
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dufleuve View Post
Well,

I like Piters77 drawing, where both fug120 and 125 are on the same backplane.
Would you have a better scan ? Is it a period document or some post war artist view ?
I unfortunately have no Fug128 manual, still looking for it.
I do have the one for the Fug125 if you're interested (have to scan the copy I have from NASM).

FS,
Any more info on the EiV 125 ? Can't find anything on that one.
Interested in the FuG125 manual, let me know too.

In this B1 config, I do not know where the U17 is located, as the FuG16 lies in front of the radar/radio operator.

Cheers
Hi Dufleuve,

I would sertanly be interested in a copy of the FuG125 manual.

Also where do you see the EiV125 in the photo's, only info I have found on that one is the "geräteblatt" form RLM

regards
mig2830
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Old 11-09-2017, 05:01 AM   #52
Hellschreiber
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In Piotr's message #17 of 10-18-2016 in this thread, there is a color photo of an Me262 canopy, with an inset black & white photo that shows equipment between the front seat for the pilot and the backseat for the "Wookie". I have looked closer at the original photos, and it looks indeed that it could be a "Peilschreiber" Psch120: with some imagination, you can see the paper tape hanging down from the lower left-hand corner of the printer (marked with orange in the photos below). This implies that the RPS120 mounting frame was installed vertically. This makes sense: the 3 cm wide paper tape moves right-to-left behind a small plexiglass viewing window. Only with this vertical orientation is the printed symbology presented such that it can be read (that is: not turned 90 degrees or upside down).



Miscellaneous - FuG120 includes eight custom cables (including connectors), with the following "Leitung-Nummer":
371F (1 conductor cable)
372F (1 conductor)
373F (12 conductors)
374F (8 conductors)
375F (8 conductors)
376F (8 conductors)
377F (2 conductors)
378F (12 conductors)

Question: what is the big black equipment box between pilot and back seat?
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Old 11-09-2017, 06:20 AM   #53
mig2830
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Very god spotting, I am working on a similar conclusion. The other black box you are referring to could look like a Revi gunsite. This mount is common to the upward firing "Schräge Musik" used by german night fighters, and deffently plabed for the ME262 B-2 version. If you look closely you can see the reflector glass plate mounted in top of the canopy on the frame in the mittel of the canopy.
If this is the case there must be upward firing guns mounted some ware in the FE-610 aeroplane.

best regards
mig2830
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Old 11-09-2017, 11:25 AM   #54
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The "Big black box" between the pilot and the radio operator is actually the Fug16zy which was normally fitted in this place. The Revi is fitted in front of the pilot, the Me 262 only had forward firing guns.

regards,

Funksammler
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Old 11-09-2017, 12:20 PM   #55
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Very interesting discussion. A Me 262 interest group has also identified one of the devices as the Peilschreiber of the FuG120. Here is what Richard Eger (who sadly passed away last May) wrote to me in 2011:

"A drawing exists identified as Nachtjäger 8-262 B 2, Zeichnung Nr. S8-0084, DLH, 7.2.45, NA(PRO) MR 1-820 (1) that shows installation of the Peilschreiber FuG 120a suspended from the canopy between the pilot and radar operator. While purported to be for the Me 262 B-2, the drawing appears to be of the interim nightfighter, the Me 262 B-1a/U1. At least 3 captured Me 262 B-1a/U1's showed something suspended from the canopy. The one brought to the U.S. could well have had an FuG 120a mounted, but it also appeared that 2 other devices were also suspended from the canopy forward of the FuG 120a."

What is also visible underneath the canopy above the pilot's head is a Revi 16 reflector glass attached at a roughly 45 degree angle, which is strange as the Me 262 B-1a/U1 did not have the "Schraege Musik". The Revi 16 was attached behind the pilot's head. The reticle was projected onto the glass that was attached to the canopy frame. Very similar to the installation in the Bf 110 with Schraege Musik, but obviously there was no upward firing armament installed. I still don't know the reason for this installation in the 262.

Regards,
Roger

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funksammler View Post
The "Big black box" between the pilot and the radio operator is actually the Fug16zy which was normally fitted in this place. The Revi is fitted in front of the pilot, the Me 262 only had forward firing guns.

regards,

Funksammler
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Old 11-10-2017, 02:33 AM   #56
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very interesting indeed.

If you look closer to the photograph of the front end of the FE-610, the gun installation is not the standard 4*MK108 30 mm cannons. There is only 2 guns installed and that is the MG151/20 20 mm gun, mounted in the two lower gun positions and the barrel protruding out of the gun port. The two upper gun ports is covered with a plate.

Does this mean that there was made "room" (weight issue?) for another gun arrangement including a upward firing gun.

Sadly the FE-610 has been scraped, so we will have to see what photos etc. can assist in bringing out in the light.

regards,
mig2830
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Old 11-15-2017, 03:47 AM   #57
piters77
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Sturmvogel, very interesting information.
Do you have this drawing, or have you seen it?

Regards,
Piotr
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Old 11-15-2017, 08:01 PM   #58
ChrisMA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mig2830 View Post
very interesting indeed.

If you look closer to the photograph of the front end of the FE-610, the gun installation is not the standard 4*MK108 30 mm cannons. There is only 2 guns installed and that is the MG151/20 20 mm gun, mounted in the two lower gun positions and the barrel protruding out of the gun port. The two upper gun ports is covered with a plate.

Does this mean that there was made "room" (weight issue?) for another gun arrangement including a upward firing gun.

Sadly the FE-610 has been scraped, so we will have to see what photos etc. can assist in bringing out in the light.

regards,
mig2830
IIRC, the (projected) SM installation (MK108) on a Me262B-1a was located behind/ beside the radio operator, but was triggered by the pilot, as similarly done on a Bf110G-4. I can't recall an actual installation of SM on a Me262.

On the other hand, I remeber also that some pilots preferred the faster firing and higher velocitied 20mm MG151 with HE ammunition, over the slower, but higher calibered MK108 with mine shells.

Regards
Christian M. Aguilar
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