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Old 04-30-2015, 02:01 AM   #16
ChrisMA
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@Funksammler,
May I give an advise on your painting of the the original steel parts?

Rustproofing, instead of an oil, use a rust converter. The advantage is, that iths builds an impermable barrier to oxygen and moisture, unlike a plain oil. Heat or warm up the relic to ensure that all moisture in the rust caveties is gone. For best effect you should see to it that your ambient temperature, the temp of the relic itself and the temp of the rust converter all are above 20°C.

On what you define as red oxide, the rust proofing primer under the dark grey finish, is more likely to be minium or red lead. Avoid to sand it using dry abrasives and touching it with bare hands, because of toxic particles. Apply at least one layer of an oil-based medium to stabilise the weathered layer of lead red, before applying a new layer of what ever new rust primer or paint finish.

Last edited by ChrisMA; 04-30-2015 at 02:06 AM.
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Old 04-30-2015, 11:33 AM   #17
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Thanks for your info. I have used rust converter in the past, but only on pieces that I could not derust properly and were repainted. It tends to leave a black/blueish sheen on painted sections and does require loose rust to be brushed off before application. For now I am happy that the rust on the inside bootlid is stable and I wish to preserve the original finish as much as possible. The vehicle will probably be dry stored for the rest of its life so I am not too worried about further degradation.

Here is some junk that I need to clean and I may end up using some rust convertor on these before priming them:

 photo DSC07279_zpss6i7z2rf.jpg

regards,

Funksammler
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Old 05-01-2015, 09:08 AM   #18
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A week's work, and a bit more progress on the body of the '17. I returned to working on the doors. Each door has a number of pertinax strips running along the edges keeping wind and rain out of the gaps between the door and the frame. Also, metal strips were fitted to the lower window rim. These strips hold the tops of the outer door skins in place and prevent any rain water from running behind the panel into the door. Now there is a "thin red line" along the length of the body between the lower and upper part:

 photo DSC07267_zpsbupd7br9.jpg

 photo DSC07266_zpsx0ht5hoq.jpg

 photo DSC07269_zps1gs3qyal.jpg

 photo DSC07270_zpsqpv3kqtj.jpg

All these strips are fitted with over 35 screws per door. With the 500 already metioned and the over 50 on the back panels that I forgot to mention brings the screw count up to about 750! At least the exterior is nearly there, obviously lots of details to fit but the re-skinning of the body is done.

I am restoring some rusty bits at the moment but it is slow going as the weather is still pretty cold...

regards,

Funksammler
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Old 05-01-2015, 04:00 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funksammler View Post

All these strips are fitted with over 35 screws per door. With the 500 already metioned and the over 50 on the back panels that I forgot to mention brings the screw count up to about 750!
Seems like when the Funkwagen will be finished she is made up just from the screws! And when you drive your first meters you can call yourself honorably a ScrewDriver
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Old 05-02-2015, 02:07 PM   #20
Hans Kristian
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Well, I am just enjoying this thread and I feel good to see that someone has the skill and stamina to ambark on a project like this.
I am very impressed and I really look forward to see the finished result...I would, ofcourse, had wished for a Ambulance version..but, you can´t have everything..

Thanks for showing and good luck...

Hans Kristian
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Old 05-03-2015, 04:45 AM   #21
Clayton
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You are doing an amazing job with this restoration. Thank you for sharing it.

Best regards,

Clay
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Old 05-03-2015, 05:45 AM   #22
Simon O.
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Excellent work. Do you know which unit the vehicle originally belonged to? Did you get any information from the owners in Norway?
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Old 05-03-2015, 11:40 PM   #23
Terry K.
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Just an outstanding job! Congratulation.
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Old 05-04-2015, 04:21 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon O. View Post
Excellent work. Do you know which unit the vehicle originally belonged to? Did you get any information from the owners in Norway?
First, thanks all for your encouragement! I had a weekend off from "work" on the Kfz 17, ready to push on this week again!

Unfortunately no precise history of my specific vehicle is know. The German army in Norway left a lot of intact equipment and vehicles after the war. A lot of Kfz 17's were converted and used post war by the Norwegian emergency services. At first we thought the bracket welded to the front bumper was to hold a snow plough, now it looks like this was actually a fixture for a water pump for a fire fire fighting vehicle, somebody has promised me a picture showing this.... I think the pump could engage directly with the crank on the front of the engine, so makes sense to put it there.

So most likely my vehicle saw service with a Norwegian fire brigage after it's wartime service with the Wehrmacht. After that it was left to rot in some Norwegian scrapyard.

I do however know what it's new identity will be, it will become a Luftwaffe vehicle. This brings me back to my boot lid, which has some interesting original surviving markings:

 photo DSC07275_zpscvtvardg.jpg

The original WL registration shows that this came from a Luftwaffe vehicle. This ties in with the tactical sign on the right which is from the VIII Fliegerkorps.

The VIII Fliegerkorps has a rich history, from participation in the Blitzkrieg, the campaign in the Balkans and Greece (including the Kreta invasion), Barbarossa, Stalingrad, operation Zitadelle to name a few.... A Kfz 17 built in 1941 may have played a part in the command of many of these operations...

You can still see remains of the original factory grey finish under the ordnance tan overspray. The registration plate was originally applied on top of the grey paint. The ordnance tan overspray must have been done in a hurry without masking off the numberplate.

Here is a close up of the VIII Fliegerkorps tactical sign:

 photo DSC07277_zpsbugrilby.jpg


The other side of the bootlid shows the tactical sign of a motorised radio company:

 photo DSC07276_zpscjscpzc9.jpg

Only in the last week I noticed that the "Dunkelgelb" paint in the left top corner of was of a slightly different hue to the rest of boot lid. I discovered that another tactical sign sits underneath which was sprayed over and replaced with the later sign. I think this is what was originally there:

 photo Slide1_zpsfnspuu7v.jpg

So far I have not been able to identify this sign, so your help is needed!

It is quite possible that earlier tactical signs were appied directly to the grey finish and remain underneath layers of paint as well, so quite an interesting history....

regards,

Funksammler
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Old 05-04-2015, 07:38 AM   #25
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It might, be possible to track down. The Norwegian national archives include a large amount of documents relating to German equipment taken over by the Norwegians and their eventual disposal eg. sold to private individuals etc. These documents include chassis numbers, so if you still have the chassis number, there could be some hope.
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Old 05-04-2015, 12:15 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funksammler View Post

So far I have not been able to identify this sign, so your help is needed!

It is quite possible that earlier tactical signs were appied directly to the grey finish and remain underneath layers of paint as well, so quite an interesting history....
Very interesting how the history reveals itself in such a way.
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Old 05-09-2015, 01:47 PM   #27
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Another week's work behind us, and a little bit more progress. First I finished the restoration work on the boot lid. This required new rubber seals. The seals are held in place with strips which are screwed to the bootlid. The original screws were all rusted in place so all had to be drilled out. The metal strips had to be remade and drilled. After that a new piece of rubber seal could be fitted in place which turned out to be an awkward job taking quite a few hours!

Now came the moment of truth, would it fit properly to the body. It did, happy days!

 photo DSC07280_zpsim1pzcan.jpg

Drilled holes to fit the hinges, so now the bootlid is fixed to the car. The bootlid is held securely closed by two latches. These were cleaned up and painted before fitting:

 photo DSC07358_zpsez418iwc.jpg

A special boolid latch was placed on the back of the vehicle to hold the bootlid open. Even though the original latch was in relatively good condition, the spring mechanism inside had lost it's power, so it would probably not latch properly. This can be dangerous because the bootlid is quite heavy and you do not want to get it on your head when you are reaching inside the boot! So the latch had to come apart which required more drilling out rusty screws. After cleaning, I reformed the spring which than had to be re-hardened and tempered. This process can be a bit tricky as the spring may become brittle and break but I think it worked out well. Re-assembled the latch (with a nice dollup of grease inside), painted it so that it could also be fitted:

 photo DSC07357_zps7nfyzhdo.jpg

Now I just have to make a lock plate for the bootlid lock but I will do that later when I detail the boot. Moving on the roof now which is a big job!

regards,

Funksammler
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Old 05-12-2015, 04:34 AM   #28
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As you will have seen, the Kfz 17's bodywork structure is made of wood. After 75 years unfortunately little survives in servicable condition, but an accurate restoration needs good reference pieces. Here are some surviving body parts that I use as a reference:

 photo DSC07259_zpstdx1ywd1.jpg

Although the wood has warped in places and has been attacked by woodworm, pieces like this are invaluable to determine sizes, shapes and construction methods used in the original body.

 photo DSC07260_zpsumkjokoj.jpg

I like to get the details right and again these pieces contain invaluable information. For example it helps me to recreate the exact crew pattern on the body panels and gives information on the paint system used.

 photo DSC07261_zpsbdklorwm.jpg

There is always to dilemma whether to use the original parts in the restoration or not. I have seen some restorations attempting to use original body parts, replacing only parts of the woodwork that have been too badly affected.

This method will give obviously give a more "original" result, but I believe this is suitable for static displays only. Once you start driving these vehicles -especially through the terrain- the forces and shaking are such that any weak points will soon break up. Perhaps this is the reason why we do not see the Norwegian army museum's largely original Kfz 17 out on the road any more.

Perhaps it also explains why so few Kfz 17 restorations come to fruition, actually I know of two Kfz 17 restorations that have been given up in the past few years. In both cases the chassis' will end up with a repro Kfz 15 body...

So far I have not done any restoration work on these original panels, I will probably use them for static display in some shape or form. Oh well, no time untill I have finished the work on the Kfz 17/1 anyway, so plenty of time to decide....

regards,

Funksammler
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Old 05-12-2015, 10:37 PM   #29
ChrisMA
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Funksammler,
your last post proves one thing: you are a very thoughtful person.
In fact, you are showing the general dilemma of professional "Heritage conservation" nowerdays. In Heritage Conservation we have the very same thoughts and questions as you. It is not anymore the only question, how much of it is original or how much you have / had to rebuild something. In the end it is far more important as how authentic a work or project has been carried out. You will and are making a compromise at one or another point. You have atleast thought this over and in the end that is what counts most.
So, what ever the out come of your thoughts will be, in the end this will be a very sufficient and according to professional standards successful project.

I salute you for that.

Regards
Christian M. Aguilar
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Old 05-13-2015, 04:00 AM   #30
Etienne B.
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Hi Funksammler,

Maybe this would be helpful in the search for your tactical sign:

http://www.bol.com/nl/p/truppenkennz...1004008886565/


regards,

Etienne
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