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Indo China Wars 1945 - 1975. Covering, French Indo China, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, etc.

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South Vietnamese Peak Caps and Devices
Old 08-12-2008, 04:29 AM   #1
nguoi tien su
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Default South Vietnamese Peak Caps and Devices

As suggested a few days ago by Patrick, here is the new topic about the RVNAF.

The thread should focus on peak caps and the different devices that are fixed on but also illustration through war time photos and regulations for example.
Fakes could be also pointed in there.

Maybe you will also be interested in other kind of caps in this section?

NTS
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Old 08-12-2008, 04:33 AM   #2
nguoi tien su
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So here is my first post on this topic :

Thu Duc ARVN school.



I sold one cap of this school a year ago, the only difference was that the background of the badge was black, instead of blue. Does any one know the difference?
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Old 08-12-2008, 04:41 AM   #3
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And here is a very nice portrait of a student in 1973 (the photo was found on the web).

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Old 08-12-2008, 04:53 AM   #4
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ARVN green late war officer's cap.



Does it look messy at home???

Last edited by nguoi tien su; 08-12-2008 at 04:59 AM.
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Old 08-12-2008, 10:05 AM   #5
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Cool looking Cap's gents, glad you guys started a thread on these items of headdress. I had to laugh at how much those faked ARVN and NP Cap's sold for on ebay the other day
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Old 08-12-2008, 02:31 PM   #6
Patrick Dempsey
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Hi Francois,

thanks for starting this additional Vietnam themed thread we can never have too many.

I need to rework a few shots of my VNAF cap...plus i have some images of other caps that are of a fairly low resolution, but will be useful for the purposes of this thread i cxan try to clean up and edit.

More to come soon.



Patrick.
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Old 08-12-2008, 10:08 PM   #7
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Thanks for the nice comments but let's give to Caesar what is Caesar’s, Patrick you were the first to give the idea of this new topic. I was just too much impatient to wait !

Here is a rare photo of the green cap shown above. It is a close up of a photo posted on the main VN thread.



The photo was taken in Feb. 1975 in Dalat.

Last edited by nguoi tien su; 08-13-2008 at 03:35 AM.
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VNAF Cap ???
Old 08-12-2008, 11:41 PM   #8
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Default VNAF Cap ???

Good topic for a thread, thanks Patrick!

For my first contribution, here is a cap for your consideration.
I have shown this to a few very distinct and knowledgeable gentlemen in California, who are on this forum and we all know, and the result has been a lot of head scratching.

It is supposedly a VNAF Enlisted Visor Cap. The Cap Device and buttons are Original. However, the cap itself, i.e. the material and make, is basically US Manufacture.
However, there is a Vietnamese Maker's label inside, which appears to be original.

For the story behind the cap, this was a purchase I made on Ebay about a year and a half ago. The seller did not know what it was, and it was not even listed in the Vietnam category. Also, the seller normally does not sell Military Items. It was simply listed as an "Asian Cap", and the whole thing was purchased for about $20. Below the value of just the Cap Device.
Needless to say, the seller simply stated the item was acquired at a thrift store.


Anyway, here are some photos of the cap. Sorry for the poor quality, these are the only photos I have on my computer, as the cap is currently in storage over 5,000 miles from where I am now.

I was just curious if anyone else has encountered caps like this?
As to the judgement, there are two options.

Number One - It is a fake, but someone made the effort to add Original Insignia

Number Two- Vietnamese Tailors were using surplus US headgear and selling it as their own manufacture


Your comments or ideas are welcome!

<IMG src="http://thefallenbuddha.com/collection/ARVN/DSC03576.JPG">
<IMG src="http://thefallenbuddha.com/collection/ARVN/DSC03577.JPG">
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Old 08-13-2008, 03:31 AM   #9
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Fallenbuddha, I was sure you will join this thread as well.

I will go to option number two with no hesitation.

I have bought two different garrison caps, VNAF, on two different occasions, both were US made but either stamped or labelled to a tailor shop in Saigon and thus still bearing the US markings.

Many late war caps were US made (japan made, DAJ contracts) as the green ARVN cap shown above. I have had no box with that at the time but I saw the carton box of another one that was stamped with US markings for the ARVN.

I guess in that case that some went out of the proper channels and were sold by vietnamese tailors directly. The VNAF was the 4th Air Force in the world, I doubt the tailors were quick/good enought to produce the required quantity of uniforms at the time.

For me your cap is all legit.

My two cents ...

NTS
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Old 08-13-2008, 05:18 AM   #10
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Here is a Regional Forces cap badge. Quite unusual.
It has a pin (use to have) and screw on the back. It is thick and bigger than the beret device.



I think the cap itself should be black (I have only found on B&W photo so far, the cap looks very dark on it) but I am not 100% sure.
I will be very interesting to know if specimens survived the war.

NTS

Last edited by nguoi tien su; 08-13-2008 at 05:20 AM. Reason: add details
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Old 08-13-2008, 09:39 AM   #11
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do you have the foto of the RG force cap??
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Old 08-13-2008, 02:26 PM   #12
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Awsome guys ,
Now we can look at the peaked caps in the correct thread .
No more "is it on page 55 or page 75 "
that drove me nuts .
Fallen B , how is Japan?
owen
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Old 08-13-2008, 02:39 PM   #13
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Hello all,

I find Vietnamese visor caps to be very interesting, and unlike patch collecting a surprisingly niche area of both study and practice.

"Fallen Budda", i am very pleased you have joined us in the discussion. I was very much hoping that you would.

I like the cap you have posted and i lean towards option "2",although i freely admit that i stand in the shadows of the knowledge assembled in the heads of the various CA based collectors amongst us!

What are your thoughts on the matter?

On another thread Owen mentioned the almost forensic attitudes used by collectors of German WW2 cloth headgear in determining originality.
Luckily, at this point in time at least, i don't think we have to exhibit the same levels of paranoia that has soured that field of collecting for many.

I am sure that sometime in the future that time will sadly come however.

I am interested in discovering if there are major quality variances between hat makers,and the following thoughts have also crossed my mind.
  • Were standard and extra quality models of cap offered?
  • Did individual makers have specific components that they used?
  • Did makers source components from the same suppliers and then merely added their own labels (this would seem to be the case with the cap you have posted)?
  • Do certain makers outclass their peers in sheer quality of product?
I am not sure we will ever find out absolute answers, but i am sure it will be an enjoyable journey trying to find out.

Here is my contribution to the thread. My VNAF cap. This cap is a fairly low quality example.The insignia is rough and lacks crisp detail, but has a crude charm all the same.

The cap holds its shape by the use of plastic tubing running around the crown......

As i said, a lower quality item!


Patrick.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg VNAF Cap Left profile.JPG (114.8 KB, 247 views)

Last edited by Patrick Dempsey; 08-13-2008 at 02:42 PM. Reason: Missing phot...forum trouble again.
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Old 08-13-2008, 02:43 PM   #14
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A pleasing, dramatic scallop to the cap...
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File Type: jpg VNAF Full profile and scallop.JPG (82.6 KB, 245 views)
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Old 08-13-2008, 02:45 PM   #15
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Detail of the chinstrap buttons, band running around the visor,grommets and multi-piece body of the cap.
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File Type: jpg Chinstrap button.JPG (101.4 KB, 249 views)
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