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Daggers and Edged Weapons Forum This is the corner of the site where you can talk about daggers, bayonets, swords and knifes of the Wehrmacht and related organizations.

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Old Yesterday, 08:10 PM   #136
BobI
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To be consistent I have not referred to this dagger type as to what its purpose or designation truly is.

Fred, your work is logical and makes a nice progression through time.

Frog,
You have given some interesting history on the railway organization which I do not know about so can't comment. But, it sounds logical and is probably accurate.
I have not and will not give a name to this dagger but.... they are absolutely period, period assembled and distributed. If you are calling the Klaas daggers "parts daggers" you are absolutely wrong as usual on the technical end of WWII German dress daggers.
I doubt you have owned more then 2 WWII German dress daggers but.... How many of this dagger type have you owned? There are consistent traits they have when they are original.

As far as price on these, "whatever" they are the name will not affect the value. I do hope it does though, I am happy to buy more at a cheaper price!

Oddly, the guys who accuse dealers of having crazy prices are often the people who ask the same prices or higher then dealers!
Bob
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Old Yesterday, 09:18 PM   #137
Frogprince
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Originally Posted by BobI View Post
To be consistent I have not referred to this dagger type as to what its purpose or designation truly is.

Fred, your work is logical and makes a nice progression through time.

Frog,
You have given some interesting history on the railway organization which I do not know about so can't comment. But, it sounds logical and is probably accurate.
I have not and will not give a name to this dagger but.... they are absolutely period, period assembled and distributed. If you are calling the Klaas daggers "parts daggers" you are absolutely wrong as usual on the technical end of WWII German dress daggers.
I doubt you have owned more then 2 WWII German dress daggers but.... How many of this dagger type have you owned? There are consistent traits they have when they are original.

As far as price on these, "whatever" they are the name will not affect the value. I do hope it does though, I am happy to buy more at a cheaper price!

Oddly, the guys who accuse dealers of having crazy prices are often the people who ask the same prices or higher then dealers!
Bob
Bob, If we are talking about the same thing I was referring to Angolia's book and the two different types (segments) of grips pictured. Unless you have a time machine or a source that I don't know of who knows for sure who the makers were from a small black and white picture??? How do we know that the parts are not from a mixed group of parts all different from each other? PS: My reference to Klaas earlier was that they did not get a specific German railway contract. Fred
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Old Today, 05:25 AM   #138
Bulldog
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Originally Posted by Frogprince View Post
In 1933 the RVM authorized some Bahschutz uniform changes also including M18 steel helmets, 1935 saw the bayonets for lower ranks and the Army style sword for Oberzugführer and above etc. In approximately mid 1936 the Reichsbahnzentralamt - Berlin revised the uniforms and specified knots as a part of the new uniforms authorized a dagger for ranks above Oberzugführer. But possibly because of funding or some other issues, the changes were not generally implemented until 1938. FP
If i have this right, the railway used ARMY helmets, they also used ARMY swords, and in approximately mid 1936 the Reichsbahnzentralamt-Berlin authorized a dagger, but possibly because of funding or some other issues, it was not generally implemented until 1938. Then is it not possible the ARMY style so-called 1st model railway was used as a cheap "make do for now" dagger up until 1938 when they got their own individually designed one.

1936 - 38 was a boom time for the introduction of all types of daggers, and it would not have took much funding to put this one together sometime in those two years, and would it have been left for two years to get a dagger if it had been authorized in 1936. The generic B (1936) and Eickhorn type 4 (1937) guards seen on the so-called 1st model fitting right in with the time frame for this dagger.

Russ.

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Old Today, 06:11 AM   #139
Mac 66
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Originally Posted by Bulldog View Post
If i have this right, the railway used ARMY helmets, they also used ARMY swords, and in approximately mid 1936 the Reichsbahnzentralamt-Berlin authorized a dagger, but possibly because of funding or some other issues, it was not generally implemented until 1938. Then is it not possible the ARMY style so-called 1st model railway was used as a cheap "make do for now" dagger up until 1938 when they got their own individually designed one.

1936 - 38 was a boom time for the introduction of all types of daggers, and it would not have took much funding to put this one together sometime in those two years, and would it have been left for two years to get a dagger if it had been authorized in 1936. The generic B (1936) and Eickhorn type 4 (1937) guards seen on the so-called 1st model fitting right in with the time frame for this dagger.

Russ.


Russ, these facts have run through my head also & it may have been a make do for now dagger until 38 when they got own proper railway designed dagger, it all sounds very plausible to me, thanks for your explanation .



Regards Mac 66.
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Old Today, 06:18 AM   #140
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I'm still waiting for someone to tell me why would they have made a black grip if there wasn't a purpose intended?
That's a good point made by Ron. Using naval daggers as examples, the imperial ones had a white grip, then after the fall of the Kaiser a black grip was introduced for the M19 and M21, then with the introduction of the M29 the white grip was reintroduced, so the colour of the grip is important for the different organizations and models. Why would a black army grip be made when army regulations state that the grip should be white. And why only Klaas and Eickhorn.

There have been in the past fakes which have quickly been exposed as fakes, these daggers aren't being easily dismissed like these other ones, with consistent fittings that look well put together, could this be because they are legitimate examples?

Russ.
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