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Crosses of the Wehrmacht Iron Cross, German Cross, War Merit Cross and Spain Cross.

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Old 01-03-2018, 08:57 AM   #16
blitzkrieg gsd
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Very nice love the look of them. Its even rare to see them in period pictures you just dont see them. Now didnt the German sniper in Enemy at the Gates wear one in the end? Seems like he said it was awarded postomosly to his son who was KIA during the opening days of the battle. Do we know of any after action reports of how and or why these would have been awarded? If anyone has a example i would like to hear it. Just like to know if there were regulations that say why you would have been given this award and not the KC
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Old 01-03-2018, 09:25 AM   #17
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Beautiful !!!! Tom
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Old 01-03-2018, 10:13 AM   #18
Dietrich Maerz
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Originally Posted by blitzkrieg gsd View Post
Just like to know if there were regulations that say why you would have been given this award and not the KC
There is a book available about the whole topic. In depth and based on original documents.
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Old 01-03-2018, 11:20 AM   #19
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There is a book available about the whole topic. In depth and based on original documents.
An outstanding book and a must for the TR medal collector.....with contributions from many WAF members, including me!

Gary B
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Old 01-03-2018, 03:48 PM   #20
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Very nice love the look of them. Its even rare to see them in period pictures you just dont see them. Now didnt the German sniper in Enemy at the Gates wear one in the end? Seems like he said it was awarded postomosly to his son who was KIA during the opening days of the battle. Do we know of any after action reports of how and or why these would have been awarded? If anyone has a example i would like to hear it. Just like to know if there were regulations that say why you would have been given this award and not the KC
This is not a combatant award. It is for contribution to the war effort. The one without swords went to political and civilian industrial contributors. The group with swords was for military personnel who contributed to the war effort in their capacity behind the lines. They could be awarded for bravery for such things as saving a life, bravery during an air raid away from the front lines, support/supply feats under enemy harassment, or etc. If I am wrong, please chime in.
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Old 01-03-2018, 03:55 PM   #21
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The difference betweenthe Order of the Iron Cross and the Order of the War Merit Cross is bravery vs. merit. With swords under enemy fire (Repairing a tank under fire) and w/o while not in direct contact with the enemy. There is an expanded list of what, where, and to whom. It also depended on the branch of service ( Army vs reserve army). It is a very complex topic when going into detail since it was for military and civil purpose!
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Old 01-03-2018, 06:53 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Fritziii View Post
...these awards are so undervalued ...
I could not agree more. These are so undervalued. Though the Iron Cross is a beautiful award, I do find these to be more attractive.

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Originally Posted by blitzkrieg gsd View Post
... Now didnt the German sniper in Enemy at the Gates wear one in the end? Seems like he said it was awarded postomosly to his son who was KIA during the opening days of the battle...
Yes, that was the case in the movie, but the whole premise was totally absurd. That said, it was nice to see the RK/KVK being showcased.
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Old 01-03-2018, 08:58 PM   #23
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Beutifull!!!
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Old 01-03-2018, 10:35 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulR View Post
This is not a combatant award. It is for contribution to the war effort. The one without swords went to political and civilian industrial contributors. The group with swords was for military personnel who contributed to the war effort in their capacity behind the lines. They could be awarded for bravery for such things as saving a life, bravery during an air raid away from the front lines, support/supply feats under enemy harassment, or etc. If I am wrong, please chime in.
Thanks for the info on how one was awarded. Sounds like you could have been awarded the version with swords in combat situations. That has all ways been my real question. So that answers that for me guys thanks again. With that thinking the son in the movie could have been awarded his cross under fire. During that crazy battle anything and every thing that could happen did. Heres another question for you guys were than many or any winners of both? Could you have been awarded both?
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Old 01-04-2018, 08:45 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by blitzkrieg gsd View Post
.... were than many or any winners of both? Could you have been awarded both?
The Knights Cross of the War Merit Cross is a far rarer award than the Knights Cross of the Iron Cross, even when compared to the Oakleaves or Swords.
The Knights Cross with Swords was awarded 268 times, the grade without Swords was 59.
Karl Otto Saur received both grades in Silver and also the grade in Gold, all with Swords.
Franz Hahne received the grade without Swords in Silver and the only award of the grade w/o Swords in Gold.

The Golden Knights Cross with or without Swords is an extremely rare award, only ooutranked by the GRand Cross of the Iron Cross. In both cases the original examples available all come from Schloss Klessheim.

It is well worth studying the history surrounding the Order of the War Merit Cross. Sure, it is not about heroic tank battles and dashing fighter pilots. But it gives a far deeper view into the inner machinations of the war, from the rear areas of the front, the ingenious developments in new weapons (Werner von Braun was a recipient and so was Ferdinant Porsche), and the endurance of the nurses and the firemen.
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Old 01-04-2018, 07:26 PM   #26
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.... With that thinking the son in the movie could have been awarded his cross under fire. During that crazy battle anything and every thing that could happen did.
It could have happened in theory yes, but it did not happen in reality. No evidence that one was awarded for actions surrounding Stalingrad. And the reality is that it would have been extremely unlikely that it would have been awarded in the first place.

I'd be willing to bet that one of the writers for the move had a fancy for the decoration.
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Old 01-04-2018, 08:48 PM   #27
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Very nice love the look of them. Its even rare to see them in period pictures you just dont see them. Now didnt the German sniper in Enemy at the Gates wear one in the end? Seems like he said it was awarded postomosly to his son who was KIA during the opening days of the battle. Do we know of any after action reports of how and or why these would have been awarded? If anyone has a example i would like to hear it. Just like to know if there were regulations that say why you would have been given this award and not the KC
The cross shown in that movie was a KVK2, incorrectly worn around the neck.

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Peter
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