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Another Pour le Merite
Old 07-11-2019, 02:41 PM   #1
medalnet
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Default Another Pour le Merite

Curious to see about the general consensus on this golden Pour le Merite
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File Type: jpg PlM-av.jpg (107.1 KB, 207 views)
File Type: jpg PlM-rv.jpg (93.1 KB, 208 views)
File Type: jpg PlM-detail.jpg (148.0 KB, 209 views)
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Old 07-11-2019, 05:37 PM   #2
blind pew
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Quote:
Originally Posted by medalnet View Post
Curious to see about the general consensus on this golden Pour le Merite
It looks nice- how long ago was it made?

The enamel appears to be dead flat with no central curvature at all. There appears to be some evidence of casting marks on the eagles. Look at the finishing of some of the letters at the junction of the enamel- the "t" in the "rite" is sloppy and the peripheral margins of the letters look muted. This does not appear to be quality work we would expect of an early PLM at a point in which speed was not at a premium and the quality would be expected to be better, not worse.

Looking at the details of the feathers and tail feathers of the eagles, they are far more muted than even the transitional gilt-hollow model I have and much less defined than the pure gold hollow Wagner.

To each his own, but don't like it. The quality is excellent, but for the above reasons I cannot see how an earlier strike (which this would have to be) would have far worse detail than a known later transitional piece, as well as a known earlier gold piece. The enamel looks brand new, has no central curve, and has essentially no damage.

I am very suspicious of any PLMs with very little, if any, enamel damage. Every PLM I have had with decent provenance has an abused look to the enamel and evidence of ring wear. Being a gold piece, we should expect more, not less wear.

Most everyone else will probably like it or love it.

What other medals, materials, or documents were presented in conjunction with this? What does the case look like?

Out of curiosity, why are you even asking, as you obviously have already drawn your own conclusions and have examined it in detail with a loupe?

Last edited by blind pew; 07-11-2019 at 06:05 PM.
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Old 07-11-2019, 07:17 PM   #3
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That one is a well known copy
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Old 07-12-2019, 06:43 AM   #4
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Quote:
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That one is a well known copy
I am just wondering why the OP posed this question, as he obviously knows what it is.

What are we missing here?
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Old 07-12-2019, 08:12 AM   #5
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I had hoped to see some more stabs at this, but this shows that a well made piece can always stir up a discussion. Patrick W hit it on the head. It is a fake, but probably the very first made to intentionally sell as the real thing to believing customers.

It is obviously very well made, in the same manner as the pre 1916 originals. Hollow from multiple pieces and even has the de-gassing holes.

A direct comparison will reveal the truth rather quickly.

Thank you for your opinions!
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Old 07-12-2019, 09:32 AM   #6
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Although a nicely produced piece, my initial gut impression of the details reminded me of the so-called Spanish fake. Fact, the piece is hollow reflects the fakers are improving their skills and have prepared to take it to the next level, but have a long way to go. Ribbon does not look much better to me. Thanks for showing this very interesting fake.
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Old 07-12-2019, 03:35 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erickn View Post
Although a nicely produced piece, my initial gut impression of the details reminded me of the so-called Spanish fake. Fact, the piece is hollow reflects the fakers are improving their skills and have prepared to take it to the next level, but have a long way to go. Ribbon does not look much better to me. Thanks for showing this very interesting fake.
This fake actually dates back to the 1970th!
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Old 07-12-2019, 04:35 PM   #8
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Wow, 1970th, learn something new every day. This is the first hollow in this design I remember seeing. Thanks for the up date.
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Old 07-12-2019, 07:34 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by medalnet View Post
I had hoped to see some more stabs at this, but this shows that a well made piece can always stir up a discussion. Patrick W hit it on the head. It is a fake, but probably the very first made to intentionally sell as the real thing to believing customers.

It is obviously very well made, in the same manner as the pre 1916 originals. Hollow from multiple pieces and even has the de-gassing holes.

A direct comparison will reveal the truth rather quickly.

Thank you for your opinions!
I now understand the purpose of you posting. Thank you for showing a fake to alert to the presence of a hollow fake.

I just pulled out my two hollow pieces and compared them to the images and it was pretty quick to tell the difference.

In isolation, identifying it might be harder.
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Old 07-13-2019, 04:25 AM   #10
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Oh, nice one. Unfortunately, it is not an authentic cross. Dangerous fake!
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