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dagger storage/preservation
Old 09-02-2008, 06:48 PM   #1
kriegsman
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Default dagger storage/preservation

Paul, thank you for stressing the importance of preservation. Just bought a dehumidifier w/built in relative humidity monitor for my collection room on your advice. Searched the internet for an acceptable way to store my daggers. I haven't been able to find one in the threads here either. I presently store them out of the scabbards in the padded dagger bags they were sent in. Threw in a few silica packs with them and left the bags open. Could these dagger bags be corrosive? They came from some of the big dealers. I'm not looking to display the daggers I'm more of a preservationist/conservitor. It's kind of expensive to display them properly with respect to the latter. Thx
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Old 09-02-2008, 07:29 PM   #2
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Yes, dagger storage bag are a bad idea. Most of them are made with nylon with a rayon. A big magnet for moisture. Yes silica can help a little. The bags that I bought. Moisture gathered at the bottom side of the scabbard. If you can find bags with fleece liner is the best. Fleece will not attract moisture with or without silica packs. Yes, Blades out of the scabbards is best. Moisture trapped in and around the scabbard runners are very commonly seen on blades especially in a humid regions. Don't forget damage can come from the wood runners also. Most big dealers are not artifact conservators. Most are only into selling products for profits. Paul
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Old 09-03-2008, 10:55 PM   #3
Stahlhelm
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The only time I use dagger storage bags is when I buy daggers at a show, and I need something to safely protect them until I get it home. They are quite convenient for that. However, as soon as I get home, the daggers come out of the bags for good.

Chris
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Ace Case
Old 09-03-2008, 11:48 PM   #4
Stu W
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Default Ace Case

Hi Guys,

Are you speaking of the kind produced by Ace Case?

http://www.acecase.com/Knife-Cases-p-1-c-260.html

Regards,
Stu
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Old 09-04-2008, 12:10 PM   #5
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Hey guys, Come on. Help do some research on cases and other things you self. Just pick up your phone and call. It’s not hard honest, and most have toll free numbers!
Just don’t assume that all cases on dealer’s sites are 100% archival safe this is what I found out after calling them (see it’s easy). These cases are Not Good at all. First clue any three cases for $15.00 second clue assorted textures.Wow! I thought that I was at a blue light special? The sales rep stated very proudly they come in a variety of colors, textures and with different coverings. The coverings are all moisture trapping cloth Leather, Nylon, vinyl, and even automobile seat covering. Wow! Didn’t know which one to buy first, and all come with a foam padding. Seriuosly with all the past posted threads on cheap cases 3 for $15.00. Would you seriously buy any of these and put a $5,000-9,000 dagger in one. Paul
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Last edited by Paul R.; 09-04-2008 at 12:16 PM.
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So the short answer is...?
Old 09-04-2008, 01:30 PM   #6
Stu W
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Default So the short answer is...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul R. View Post
Hey guys, Come on. Help do some research on cases and other things you self. Just pick up your phone and call. Itís not hard honest, and most have toll free numbers!
Just donít assume that all cases on dealerís sites are 100% archival safe this is what I found out after calling them (see itís easy). These cases are Not Good at all. First clue any three cases for $15.00 second clue assorted textures.Wow! I thought that I was at a blue light special? The sales rep stated very proudly they come in a variety of colors, textures and with different coverings. The coverings are all moisture trapping cloth Leather, Nylon, vinyl, and even automobile seat covering. Wow! Didnít know which one to buy first, and all come with a foam padding. Seriuosly with all the past posted threads on cheap cases 3 for $15.00. Would you seriously buy any of these and put a $5,000-9,000 dagger in one. Paul
Hi Paul,

A simple Yes would have been sufficient.

Stu
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Old 09-04-2008, 03:18 PM   #7
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Hey Stu, Please take no offence here. This was not pointed at you or any body else. I like this site and the people on it. I stop by here to offer my help with conservation issues and my knowledge on preservation. I don't mind people asking me questions on things, or my thoughts. As we all are from time to time tired from our daily life grind. I am no exception to that. I have been a little swamped at work.
This was merely an interesting conversation that I had with an employee and a manufacturing company that sell cases. Please take to offence. I do get a small hand full of people that ask the same question over and over every two or three weeks. My tried brain blanked out I was merely trying to encouraging people to ask the questions to the company first, or use the search button. Then ask all the questions you want. Paul
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Last edited by Paul R.; 09-04-2008 at 03:31 PM.
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No worries!
Old 09-04-2008, 03:37 PM   #8
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Default No worries!

Hi Paul,

No worries...we are good.

Cheers,
Stu
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Old 09-04-2008, 09:47 PM   #9
kriegsman
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Thanks for advice Paul. I searched extensively on the net for fleece bags and couldn't locate any that didn't have other moisture trapping materials involved.I think I'll use a suggestion from Ron Weinand found on another thread and use the silver storage cloth.
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Old 09-05-2008, 09:30 AM   #10
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You may want to re think about using the silver bag for storage. these bags/material are treated. The company would not say treated with what. The company said it's there mfg.privilege. All the said it was treated with 3 different chenicals. Stay tuned. I will find out. So don't stock up yet. Paul

They also sell this stuff by the yard. Here's their blurb

58" Wide Treated Silverware Cloth Available in 7 Colors - Treated to prevent tarnish in silver and other precious metals. Sold by the yard, each piece is 58" wide. (e.g. if you order 2 yards you will receive a piece 72" by 58".) Make your own silverware wraps or pouches. Use to line silverware or jewelry drawers, etc



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Remember! They ain't making any more of this stuff.. Take care of it.

WE SPEND LOTS OF MONEY ON OUR HOBBY. SPEND A FEW MORE DOLLARS TO PRESERVE HISTORY!

Last edited by Paul R.; 09-05-2008 at 01:49 PM.
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Old 09-07-2008, 08:23 PM   #11
Skipper Greenwade
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"Would you seriously buy any of these and put a $5,000-9,000 dagger in one?"

In a word, yes.

I hate to be the lone "voice in the wilderness" here, but I have been storing daggers out of their scabbards in the padded, zippered cases for twenty-plus years (some have - literally - been in the cases for twenty-plus years) with absolutely no ill effects. I know for a fact that Tom Johnson and Tom Wittmann store virtually all of their entire inventories in them, as do many other dealers. Similar cases have been used by gun collectors and dealers for even longer - again, with no problems - and we're basically talking about metal and wood there, too.

IMO, as long as you're keeping your 'toys' in a climate controlled environment (comfortable with respect to humidity and temperature), you aren't likely to encounter any problems as a result of storing them in the cases.

Best,
Skip
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Old 09-09-2008, 06:40 AM   #12
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Skip, Paul is thinking here on a different level than your average collector. He's talking about preserving these items for 100's or 1000's of years. He wants to get as close as possible to ideal conditions. I don't think most dealers are thinking on this scale when they store their items.
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Old 09-09-2008, 07:08 PM   #13
Skipper Greenwade
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Sorry, but I still disagree with a blanket statement that the zippered cases are inherently bad for your gun/daggers. As proof, I again submit that I have had daggers in the cases for over 20 years with no discernable difference in condition (not even taking on a little more patina, much to my dismay).

I maintain that virtually all of our daggers have seen the worst conditions they will ever be subjected to (unless you're wearing one to work every day). Except for cases of chronic neglect or deliberate abuse, most have fared quite well over the past 60 - 65 years (I should look so good as my daggers and I'm only 50!) Excessive handling and overzealous cleaning have damaged infintely more good daggers than storing them in zippered cases.

I'm not saying that the cases are the only way to go, but I'm not buying what, to me, is unsubstantiated evidence that they will damage your daggers - regardless of how long they're stored - unless other forces (i.e., attic heat, excessive humidity, etc.) are thrown into the equation.

Best,
Skip
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Old 09-13-2008, 09:44 AM   #14
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I agree with Skip regarding "blanket statements" about the effects of any particular storage devices. Blanket statements are rarely accurate. Instead, it's all about collector experiences and the materials of which such devices are made, rather than the device itself. I am also sure that PaulR is concerned about determining the composition of such devices, before he even makes a determination about their safety.

Certain materials are known to degrade in certain ways over time and thus produce certain gases which, in turn, are not healthy for collectibles. Over what period of time and exactly how such gases effect an item is the real issue to consider, I suppose. Some of these effects are so incredibly slow in happening that we may not even see any evidence of it in our lifetimes. Other effects may occur faster, with more obvious results. As I said earlier, I was a coin collector long before I was a collector of militaria, and I know that the material and it's known effects is what it's really all about. Researching and learning the known effects of certain materials is the key here. Blanket statements are certainly never the types of information to trust.

Finally, there is always the issue of known adverse effects of certain materials versus the known experiences of collectors. I myself have seen many cases where items stored in ways considered unsafe have emerged, after many years, with no visible ill effects. For example, although it is said to be unsafe to store medals in their original cases, I have seen some beautiful, undamaged examples stored that way for decades. I've written about such anomolies (if you can call them that) on this forum many times before. I have so far discovered nothing that makes any good sense about it either.

In all fairness, and in conclusion, the truth is that collector experiences, after a point, become just as important and valid as any scientific information out there. Likewise, known scientific facts about the breakdown and safety of certain materials are just as important. I'm only trying to be "fair and balanced" about all of this, as I always try to be. Somewhere in the middle of it all lies the answer...I hope.

Respectfully,

Chris

Last edited by Stahlhelm; 09-13-2008 at 10:10 AM.
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Old 10-17-2008, 06:50 AM   #15
carlos1
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hello fellow collectors out there.

i am pretty new in this game,and want to ask the following questions.

1: What is ideal temp/moisture fore daggers?
2: I am going to put RenWax on my daggers,there is gunoil now.How do i best remove the oil?
3: Can i use RW on the handle,or only metal parts?


I live in Norway and at my place we have all the weather conditions u can imagine.Is it best to put my daggers in a cabinet,and make a fan and warm in it?

Hope i dont am too stupid for u guys now,but better be asking,then sorry
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