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John Burnett Helmet Forum One of the most distinguishing characteristics of the German fighting force was their Stahlhelm.

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Old 01-22-2020, 12:11 PM   #16
bigschuss
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I agree Jacques. The simple presence of a bullet or shrapnel hole does not a KIA helmet make, but some collectors are so want to fabricate all kind of theories in this hobby. I suppose it helps with the sale. Seems like collectors also overuse KIA if there is any stain on the liner no matter how small or un-blood like.

Water damage = blood = KIA.
Mouse piss = blood = KIA.
70 years in a hot attic or a damp cellar = stained and shrunken or rotted leather = blood = KIA.

There are obviously examples of legit blood stained KIA helmets. I think the number if them is way less than what is reflected on dealer's sites, Ebay, the Estand, etc.
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Old 01-22-2020, 12:12 PM   #17
RonR
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Thank you Willie!


Looking forward to seeing you again!


...........
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File Type: jpg KIA 2.jpg (228.3 KB, 315 views)
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Old 01-22-2020, 12:45 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Willi Z. View Post
jacquesf, do you mean this sort of helmet;

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru....php?t=1031126
That is what I am referring to amongst others. I just find in funny when "target shot" helmets become "KIA " helmets, of which Ron's is a good example.

Here are two KIA FJ helmets I used to and still own.J
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Old 01-22-2020, 12:57 PM   #19
RonR
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Here is a "target shot" helmet actually enhanced by the local veteran with red paint to simulate blood....


........
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Old 01-22-2020, 01:26 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonR View Post
Here is a "target shot" helmet actually enhanced by the local veteran with red paint to simulate blood....


........
Great helmet Ron
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Old 01-22-2020, 02:20 PM   #21
Lenny W
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Some killer helmets no pun intended. Ron those period pictures are brutal wow
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Old 01-22-2020, 03:14 PM   #22
Leon67
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This impact must have caused at least a serious headache if the FJ was wearing it when the helmet was hit..
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Old 01-22-2020, 03:25 PM   #23
Sergey K.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon67 View Post
This impact must have caused at least a serious headache if the FJ was wearing it when the helmet was hit..
This one more likely dropped under the tank tracks..
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Old 01-22-2020, 03:29 PM   #24
Willi Z.
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Sergey, one day you should share some of the helmets you have found. Your experiences would be very educational in determining causes of damage. It was always helpful to me in the past....
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Old 01-22-2020, 03:37 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spoo View Post
Human flesh will start to break down and deteriorate within hours. Do you really think human matter that has been buried in the ground and openly exposed to all the elements for 70 some years would still be there ?
In fact yes! The first helmet I inspected as a kid had 3 bullet holes plus hair, dried blood and tissue plastered inside! Strange but true and the GI who killed the German wearing it gave me a ride home from school, I got the full scoop from the man in the thick of the fray.

Robt.
Ps.... helmet was a double decal Heer M35 and was souvenired at that time.

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Old 01-22-2020, 04:01 PM   #26
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Wartime medical statistics inform us that somewhere around 80 % of casualties were caused by fragment wounds, not by bullet wounds. Therefore, bullet damaged helmets should be the exception, and pistol bullet damaged helmets even more so. This is confirmed when digging on the battlefields, shrapnel damaged helmets are much more common than bullet damaged helmets.

However in collections the majority of damaged helmets are bullet damaged, very often by a nice shot straight from head on. It is obvious most, but certainly not all, of these helmets were shot for fun at some point.

Regarding the helmet that is for sale right now, that a link has been posted to. The fact that it is hit by shrapnel from behind makes it seem that this is actual combat damage. But was it worn at the time? Look at the exit impact. It has several small secondary impacts around it, no doubt made by small fragments of the helmet that were blown off the entry hole and travelled along with the fragment, to impact around it at the attempted exit point. This is a clear indication that this helmet was not being worn at the time it was hit, as these tiny fragments would have stayed embeded in the soldiers head.

JL
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Old 01-22-2020, 04:06 PM   #27
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" Human flesh will start to break down and deteriorate within hours. Do you really think human matter that has been buried in the ground and openly exposed to all the elements for 70 some years would still be there ? "

It seems that you have put your foot in your mouth. Bone fragments could obviously survive, as could hair.
I have excavated two battle damaged helmets myself, that had hair that had fallen between the leather and the helmet at the time of impact, and the hair remained trapped there.
Below, the first helmet found in France. The soldiers body was about one meter away from the helmet. Note the lock of hair trapped in the rust.

JL
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Old 01-22-2020, 04:08 PM   #28
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The second helmet was excavated in a foxhole in the Demjansk area by myself. It has a small impact at the rear. The liner did not survive very long once out of the ground, and when it fell out, the classical lock of hair trapped between the liner and the shell was noted.

I have only ever excavated a few battle damaged helmets myself, and the fact that two have this hair in them lead me to believe that this was a very common, perhaps even "classical", phenomenon.

JL
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Old 01-22-2020, 04:10 PM   #29
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Indeed Sergey, that FJ helmet posted above seems to have some regular parallel impacts on it looking like tank tracks, though they are a bit close together.
Here is a similar British helmet I have.
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Old 01-22-2020, 04:15 PM   #30
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Years ago I used to buy a good number of dug helmets from Russia. Many were battle damaged. Some had clearly been used as targets by the soldiers of the Red Army. Others were damaged when the russians threw explosive devices into the empty bunkers (still full of equipments) to destroy them, as often happened. Some (let's say 2 or 3) where for sure KIA helmets: I was not aware of it when I bought them, I discovered this only during the cleaning process as I found a lot of human hairs inside them It was a bit disturbing. Some of the pics are the old ones from the original owner
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Last edited by Ironcrown; 01-22-2020 at 04:23 PM.
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