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Bundesrepublik Deutschland, 1949-Present From West Germany through to the modern reunified German Republic.

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Visor Hat Help
Old 12-07-2010, 01:52 PM   #1
Bob Hritz
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Default Visor Hat Help

Can someone help me to identify this BW visor hat and advise me of the proper insignia and hat strap. The piping is a pale green,

Thank you,
Bob Hritz
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Old 12-07-2010, 03:02 PM   #2
Gordon Craig
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Bob,

This would appear to be a West German police cap. The flash seems to have washed out the colurs somewhat but if the cap band is really green then one possibility would be a BePo (Bereitschaftpolizei or Barracks Police) for the state of Baden Wurthenburg. While most state police forces used green trim on their caps they often had different coloured cap bands. The visor appears to be an early one made of thin fibre and not trimed with plastic as is the example I have posted below. This cap is for an officer. Enlisted men wore a black plastic chin strap that sat flush with the bottom of the cap badge. Officers wore the same cap badge and the silver cords did not come up to the bottom of the badge. At a later date all police forces changes to a full, but smaller star, that sat higher on the cap. The best way to possibly determine which police force wore this cap would be to look at the sweat shield and see where it was made.

Regards,

Gordon
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File Type: jpg DSCF6181.jpg (201.9 KB, 306 views)

Last edited by Gordon Craig; 12-07-2010 at 03:04 PM. Reason: correcting typos
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Old 12-07-2010, 03:06 PM   #3
Bob Hritz
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It was made in Kassel. It belongs to my American Legion Post and I want to complete it and put it back on display. Is there a source for the insignia and cap band?

Bob Hritz
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Old 12-07-2010, 03:22 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Hritz View Post
It was made in Kassel. It belongs to my American Legion Post and I want to complete it and put it back on display. Is there a source for the insignia and cap band?

Bob Hritz
Maybe me, I have to look if I have some left.
I have to check with a friends collection, acording to Kassel you might need a Hessian Badge.
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Old 12-08-2010, 01:08 AM   #5
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Hi Bob,

Hmmm... well, this is tough to pin down exactly from just this one picture. I agree with Gordon that it is probably 1950s or early 1960s. The two reasons are the visor (as Gordon mentioned) and the type of wool. Compare the wool of yours to the one Gordon posted. See how fine and detailed the weaving is in Gordon's? That's not the same as yours.

Hesse an NRW also wore green with green piped hats, though nothing I can think of has the sort of colors your picture shows. Maybe you can adjust the colors of the photo to make it look more like the real hat colors?

There is also the possibility that this hat was for something like Justiz or another organization. Unfortunately, the late 1950s was the era of B&W photography, so it's not like there are a ton of pictures to reference for cases like this.

Steve
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Old 12-08-2010, 05:12 PM   #6
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Steve,

The colors of the hat, in post 1 are perfect to match the hat, in natural light. The piping and green wool are both very light and subdued.

Bob Hritz
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Old 12-31-2010, 11:23 AM   #7
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I would appreicate any help in finding a proper emblem for this hat which was made in Kassel. I would like to restore it and return it to my American Legion Post.

Thank you,
Bob Hritz
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Old 12-31-2010, 01:04 PM   #8
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Team - Does anyone have a picture of the insignia that Bob needs?

I have some old police and fire insignia sitting in the trade box that might fit the bill.

As an aside, it would appear as though the policeman pictured below is wearing the hat that Gordon posted earlier (#2).

All the best - TJ
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Old 12-31-2010, 02:13 PM   #9
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Bob,

Kassel is in the state of Hesse so you would be ok to put a Hessen Polizei cap badge on it. They are avaiable from S. Stephan's web site at this url
http://www.stephan.de/php/de_neuesfe...4cb58e3eca6c8d
I have dealt with Stephan for many years and he speaks English well enough to deal with via email. I suggest that you contact him via email and ask about a chin strap for your cap when you order the cap badge. He has thousands of articles on his web site and you could search for a long time without finding the chin strap you need and he will be able to advise you as to which one to order.
I've posted pictures below of the front and back of the badge from Stephan's web site.

Regards,

Gordon
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File Type: jpg 200000000005506-1.jpg (84.4 KB, 230 views)
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Old 01-01-2011, 07:15 AM   #10
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Hi Bob,

This is an interesting one because I bought a very similar cap from ebay many years ago. It was offered as a Heer Pz Gren cap and the wool colours matched perfectly. Feldgrau cover, dark green band, lime green piping. However, once I could inspect the interior, it was obviously post war made.

I'd also like to know which early post war organizations wore these caps. I don't think it would have been the Polizei.

Could we see the interior of your example?

Cheers
Ben
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Old 01-01-2011, 11:29 AM   #11
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Hello Ben,

Here are two interior photos.

Thank you,
Bob
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File Type: jpg MVC-021F.JPG (123.7 KB, 214 views)
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Old 01-01-2011, 03:05 PM   #12
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Ben,

Very few organizations wore green hats. Zoll (Customs) and Justiz (Justice) did, but I don't think this is from either one of those organizations. Polizei of some sort is the most likely possibility.

Steve
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Old 01-01-2011, 05:43 PM   #13
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Thanks Bob, almost identical to the one I have.

Steve, you're probably correct. Just strange that so few have been seen if it were Polizei.
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Old 01-01-2011, 06:56 PM   #14
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Well, sort of 1950s items are kinda hard to come by even if you know what you're looking for. Worse, there is not much documentation, especially in color, of very early BRD uniforms. Obviously Bundeswehr and BGS are more well know, but even then the amount of information until recently has also been hard to find. I have a full uniform (jacket, trousers, M43 hat, and Mantel) that nobody has been able to identify. It's also green with green piping, so for all I know your hat and my uniform are a match.

Here are pictures of my uniform (not meaning to hijack this thread!)

Steve



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Old 01-07-2011, 02:22 PM   #15
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Team - I finally found those Polizei hat badges that were kicking around my trade box.

I know that they are of no use to Bob, but if anyone else could use them, they are yours free of charge.

Please note that one of the attaching pins is missing from the badge on the far right.

All the best - TJ
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