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Bundesrepublik Deutschland, 1949-Present From West Germany through to the modern reunified German Republic.

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Anyone have a source for these uniform items?
Old 09-10-2009, 05:35 PM   #1
Guardian 5
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Default Anyone have a source for these uniform items?

Team - The attached c.1956 picture is unique to me that in 15 years of serious Bundeswehr collecting, I have never seen any of the pictured items for sale.

The photo shows the rear view of an airborne soldier standing at attention while addressing Federal Chancellor Konrad Adenauer. The trooper is wearing an experimental jump helmet, an airborne pattern splinter pattern battle dress, and an early Heerestruktur 1 small battle pack.

Just out of curiousity, has anyone ever seen any of these items for sale, and if so, when was it and what was the going price?

Thanks - TJ
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Old 09-10-2009, 05:52 PM   #2
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Hello,
2 years ago I saw a jacket.
She was on ebay Germany.
The jacket was sold for 630, - € for France.
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Old 09-10-2009, 05:55 PM   #3
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The question, however, too?
Which of the other collectors of Bundeswehr items.
Paratroopers from the Bundeswehr has early 1956-1958?
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Old 09-10-2009, 06:52 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Kurt View Post
Hello,
2 years ago I saw a jacket.
She was on ebay Germany.
The jacket was sold for 630, - € for France.
Ich bin vom Himmel gefallen!

You could pick up a decent Wehrmacht tunic or helmet for that kind of money and there's no shortage of reputable dealers offering them.

Danke Herr Onkel - TJ
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Old 09-10-2009, 07:09 PM   #5
Hugh Zillmann old
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Hi Thomas,

Never seen the helm or pack.

A local dealer here had one of the jackets. Really badly chewed-up. He wanted $250Aus for it.

That was about 10+ years ago. I have no idea where the jacket went. I hope it was not bought by a re-enactor. Helmet covers............

Cheers,

Hugh
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Old 09-11-2009, 07:19 AM   #6
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Saw a Jacket on U.S. ebay about 5 years ago , went for over $600 .
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Old 09-11-2009, 07:33 AM   #7
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TJ,

Looks like no joy on your items of interest. Since they are all of very early issue and rare and you haven't seen any in 15 years it will probably be a long wait. I'd love to have a jacket to go with my trousers!

Cheers,

Gordon
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Old 09-11-2009, 01:12 PM   #8
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I have seen jacket couple times on ebay.de and not always as expensive as other mention but still at least EUR 200.

Not sure if that helmet is WW2-style - looks rounder. Anyways, someone sold WW2 style helmet on International section of e-stand earlier this year. Wanted $250 for it I think (it sold).

regards
Klaus
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Old 09-11-2009, 10:48 PM   #9
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Team - I appreciate the feedback - thanks!

I'm surprised at the rarity of the back pack. It's hard to believe that something so mundane is so scarce. But then again, what kind of nutcase collects early Bundeswehr back packs......

Oliv moleskin uniforms are already starting to get scarce. I wonder what a good "badged up" moleskin shirt will fetch in a few years.

Well, my next topic for "anyone have a source for these" is what collector/author Daniel Peterson calls the "Belgian Leibermuster" pattern uniform. The only picture of this uniform that I've seen being worn by a Bundeswehr soldier is the one seen below from "Symbole und Zeremoniell" by Hans-Peter Stein.

Peterson theorized that it was fielded but soon withdrawn because it closely resembled camouflage uniforms worn by the Swiss and Czech armies of the day. My personal theory is that it was worn for the occasion of this press conference only because there were no Bundeswehr Splittermuster uniforms available at "show time".

Any other thoughts?

Thanks - TJ
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Old 09-11-2009, 11:02 PM   #10
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Here is Peterson's reconstruction of a Bundeswehr Soldier wearing the Belgian Leibermuster uniform from his book, "Waffen SS Camouflage Uniforms & Post-War Derivatives". My hat's off to Peterson for undertaking a lot of the early research into this poorly understood subject area.

The uniform in this picture was manufactured by the Belgian firm ABL. It has no discernible Bundeswehr markings. Peterson also reports coming across a zeltbahn made in this pattern.

All the best - TJ
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Old 09-12-2009, 08:48 AM   #11
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Hi Tj,

a normal German soldier didn't wear the steel helmet in that manner, that is the American way. See Post 9. I think, typical for an American (?) author.

There is a picture, where the same soldier (Post 9) wear the uniform without the camouflage pattern, to show the "design" of the uniform!

And it is definetely not the style we can see on the picture in Post 10, especially the collar!

Regards
Uwe
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Old 09-12-2009, 12:04 PM   #12
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My understanding has always been that ABL stands for "Belgian Army", combining the French and Flemish initials of "Armée belge" and "Belgisch Leger". It's found on all Belgian military-issued uniform items, the way the broad arrow is used to mark British government issued properties. It's not an export firm, as Peterson suggested in his book.

Peterson was only speculating that these uniforms were specifically made by the Belgians for testing by the Bundeswehr, given that the Belgian veterans he had interviewed were unable to recollect that such garments had been tried out by their own military. However, I think the more likely scenario is that the uniform shown in Peterson's book was tested very briefly by the Belgians on a limited scale (hence even the Belgian veterans Peterson talked to were unaware of its existence), and that the Germans had come up with something similar, perhaps inspired by the Belgian design, but not identical to it, through their own development program.

What Uwe posted above only reinforced my suspicions.

Gene T
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Old 09-12-2009, 08:20 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedytop View Post
... a normal German soldier didn't wear the steel helmet in that manner ...

Ahem, Uwe, I did ...

... and most of the other guys which were with me on Luftwaffe ground combat training in the end of the 70s and the 80s ... just because it looked so stylish American ...

Have a nice Sunday,
Steve
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Old 09-12-2009, 10:40 PM   #14
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In book Uniforms of the German Soldier by Alejandro de Quesada, there is one more photo of Leibermuster uniform from same press conference but photo of man wearing it alone and holds M1 shell. Not sure about collar difference but open in photos and closed in reconstruction. The sleeve loop is strange but uniforms look similar at least.

Couple observation on reconstruction: Canvas y-straps and G1 incorrect for time 1955-56 (when this uniform could have been worn). Model holds rifle a bit like American too...

regards
Klaus
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Old 09-13-2009, 08:36 AM   #15
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Hi,

"Not sure about collar difference but open in photos and closed in reconstruction."

Please compare it:



Uwe
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