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Polish Adrian liner
Old 04-18-2005, 04:16 PM   #16
Kenny Suit
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Default Polish Adrian liner

This helmet has its original French liner.

Polish Adrians were also re-lined, when necessary, with a Polish liner similar to the Adrian, but using new prongs mounted to the shell with an external rivet.

The Polish re-paint is on the exterior of the helmet and extends to the underside of the brim. The interior of the helmet shell is unpainted and is in its original French blue color. The liner was not removed for repainting, and some of the khaki paint is on the edge of the liner.
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French paint colors
Old 04-18-2005, 04:21 PM   #17
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Default French paint colors

I would like to point out the subtle variations in the blue color on the various French helmets already posted to this thread.

Would anyone out there like to explain the differences in shade?

How can we distinguish between "horizon" blue from "slate" blue from "gray" blue ... and so on with all the terms used by collectors?

-- Kenny
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Old 04-18-2005, 04:39 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Suit
Here is the Engineer's Adrian liner. It is an early war type made of one piece of leather. The leather is also embossed with the size (60) of the liner.
Hi Kenny,
You have a nice engineer Adrian, the very early liners were made of one piece leather and red colth, just check the internal part of the liner.
Philippe
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markings on Engineer liner
Old 04-18-2005, 04:48 PM   #19
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Default markings on Engineer liner

My early liner has dark blue/grey wool padding, not red.

I forgot to mention that the liner embossing reads "60 C1" which I assume means the liner size (60) and the shell size (C1).

Is this correct?

-- Kenny
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Old 04-18-2005, 05:14 PM   #20
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Hi Ken. Correct.

The subtle paint shade differences are simply due to varying paint lots & this can be observed on helms of other nations as well.

Horizon blue is light "sky" blue, slate blue a very dark blue, while gray-blue or artillery gray is light bluish gray.
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Old 04-18-2005, 05:17 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Suit
My early liner has dark blue/grey wool padding, not red.

I forgot to mention that the liner embossing reads "60 C1" which I assume means the liner size (60) and the shell size (C1).

Is this correct?

-- Kenny
Hi kenny,
You are correct. sometimes you can find in the shell maker mark (ink stamp).
Phil.
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Old 04-18-2005, 05:32 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frentebro
Hi Ken. Correct.

The subtle paint shade differences are simply due to varying paint lots & this can be observed on helms of other nations as well.

Horizon blue is light "sky" blue, slate blue a very dark blue, while gray-blue or artillery gray is light bluish gray.
Hi Ken and Frentebro,
The WWI Adrian paint is very interesting. The first series were paint in shining bleu. The poilus had sometimes to apply mud on the helmet for camo purpose, so they issued a mat paint which at the beginning was hand applied afterwards factory applied.
Today to recognize the type of paint is sometimes difficult due to how reacted the paint and how was stored the helmet. It means you can encounter a wide variety of bleu.
It is also difficult for the colonial troops because many WWI adrians were re-issued at the beginning of WW II and repainted in kaki green. And today you can confuse a kaki WW I color with a kaki WWII color.
Phil
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Old 04-18-2005, 06:00 PM   #23
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If i'm not mistaken the WW2 colonial greenish khaki (referred to as "duck ****") is distinctively different from the WWI khaki brown as used by colonial troops & the Legion.
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Old 04-18-2005, 06:09 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Suit
Finally, here is the last French M-15 Adrian from my collection. This one was used in Poland during the 1920's and possibly the 1930's. I know that the Polish military officially forbade the use of the eagle on the front of their helmets in 1930, but I'm sure it continued un-officially.
That is a very impressive piece. Most of the ones I've seen have been questionable (at best). That is quite a nice helmet.

It took me more than a year to track down an original Wz 31. How did that one take to find?
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Polish Adrian
Old 04-18-2005, 06:35 PM   #25
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Default Polish Adrian

My wife is Polish, so I had an unfair advantage....!

But I'm not totally sure it's original, to be honest. It would be so easy for someone to take a Polish cap badge, solder some prongs on the back, and attach it to a nondescript French surplus khaki Adrian. Except for taking the badge off and looking at the wear behind it and the method of attachment, or at the very least using a flashlight to peer behind the badge (that's what I did), I don't see how one can know if the badge and helmet were originally one piece. Or if they were "married" later on by a collector who had two pieces of similar "age" and wear.

This seems to be one of the hazards of collecting the French helmets.

I think this Polish helmet is original, but I'm not 100% positive.

By the way, I'm still kicking myself for passing up a WW1 Adrian with a Polish badge used by Poles fighting in France during WW1 (the badge is silver-colored and oval with an eagle inside). I found it at a Warsaw flea market back in the late 90's. Because the badge was silver-colored, I thought it was fake, so I didn't buy it. Then a year later I found a reference book on Polish helmets and inside there was a photograph of a helmet exactly like it!

Ah, well, sometimes the good ones get away....
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paint colors
Old 04-18-2005, 06:41 PM   #26
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Default paint colors

Phil and Dave:

OK, so what was the chronological sequence of the colors you describe.

Is it thus:

early-war: Horizon (light) blue
mid-war: Slate (dark) blue
late-war: Artillery gray (blue-gray)

And what years are we talking about here?

What is frustrating to me (as a collector) is that I can't tell the difference between the colors unless it's really obvious (like on my Medical helmet). Take my Engineer's helmet, for instance. Is this Slate blue or Artillery Gray? It has an early liner in it -- does this mean that the color of the helmet is a Horizon blue that has darkened with age?

I would really like to find a Horizon blue infantry helmet, but I've never seen a really light blue example.

-- Kenny
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Romanian helmet
Old 04-18-2005, 06:48 PM   #27
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Default Romanian helmet

Peter:

That Romanian helmet looks great. I love those Eastern European badge variants of the Adrian. (Czech, Romanian, Greek, etc.) Where did you find it?

Back in the 90's I used to see various examples of them for auction at Manion's, but I was never able to grab one.

That's defininately a keeper.

-- Kenny
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Old 04-18-2005, 07:13 PM   #28
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Ken, the horizon blue would be in a similar tonal range to the Arty gray. The slate blue is really dark. As stated, age, storage/use conditions & varying paint lots can create some uncertainty as to the original tonality.

No doubt most of the horizons were overpainted during & after the war. I'm not sure of the dates of adoption of the later 2 colors but probably one of our French members at the Yahoo Helmet Forum does!
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Old 04-18-2005, 07:33 PM   #29
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I've only have one Adrian M15. It has the brushed on matt slate blue.
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Old 04-18-2005, 07:35 PM   #30
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Liner
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