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Cloth Headgear Forum Covers officer visor, overseas caps, field caps, and any cloth headgear.

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Old 07-11-2005, 03:04 PM   #16
Jos L C
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Old 07-11-2005, 03:06 PM   #17
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Old 07-11-2005, 03:08 PM   #18
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Old 07-11-2005, 03:53 PM   #19
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John and Jos ,

This thread begins to be interesting!
My question is , except on these mint luft trop overseas cap , does this unusual type of marking exist for some other type of headgear produced by this company ?

Here an other marking found in a well worn female auxiliary luft overseas cap...
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Old 07-11-2005, 03:56 PM   #20
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Jos, ever wonder why these eagles have no eyes and so many other tropical eagles do?

Another provable correct Berolina stamp Alexandre, perhaps we are showing too many?
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Old 07-11-2005, 04:38 PM   #21
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Quote:

Jos, ever wonder why these eagles have no eyes and so many other tropical eagles do?


John,I don't see it as a bad indication in the first place..
If we go through all the cloth eagles,some patterns lack the eye,some have a single stitching,some have a big eye..
I've a cloth pilotbadge where the eagle has a eye like the Berolina eagle,it doesn't worry me that much.

Just for your interest I think I've found some pics with thin cloth overseas caps.
I don't know of any other thin cloth overseas caps other than Berolina,do you ?
Well,these might be the ones..

Jos.
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Old 07-11-2005, 04:38 PM   #22
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Old 07-11-2005, 04:58 PM   #23
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Jos, the thin material is not an issure for me. Tropen schiffen were made from all kinds of material. The Hoffmann example is of a super soft fabric that feels like linen. It is exactly like Willi's Hoffmann in the Kurtz book, same eagle as his too.

Here is an eagle from a Berolina cap that has direct provenance to Tunisia. This cap has the markings like the one Alexandre put in his "100% original schiffen" post.

I want to know why these Berolina caps with the other style stamp are always unissued?

I want to know why none of their eagles have eyes? The different backings for the eagles do not bother me, but if the backings are different, why are not some of the eagles different? In other words, I agree with you that the lack of eye is not a bad sign alone, but why are all the eagles like this? Perhaps they are not, if so, I would like to see an example.

I want to know why, as yet, no one has shown me a sidecap with these alternate markings that was issued and worn? They are dated 42, why are not some found worn? And I do not mean reenacted with, I mean verifiable provenance.
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The Eyes have it......
Old 07-11-2005, 05:02 PM   #24
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Default The Eyes have it......

another.
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Old 07-11-2005, 05:17 PM   #25
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Well,I think it's hard to find a answer on the question why these caps are always un-issued..,guess we'll never know..

Reminds me a bit of the large amount of O2 masks that were found..,some had hoses totally different from what we knew and stamps we never see on era pics,also the found paintbags,most all damaged,were of a different type we find in pics..,sometimes hard to believe,but the stuff was real..and un-issued..

On the other hand..,howmany trop.Schiffchen do we've to compare with ?
In fact we collectors only have a few,a handful so to speak..
It'll always be very hard to prove things wrong only by a stamp etc..,for that we don't know enough from Berolina IMO..,same with other items..
I remember a new type IMME pilotbadge was discovered only 2 years ago..,we had our theory made about IMME and "Dang" a strange one..and another..,till now only 2 or 3..,peculiar,strange..,yes..,but one had good provenance.
Why making 2 different Pilotbadges,while IMME could take as many as they liked from Juncker ?
We'll never know..

Ofcourse I've asked myself why those caps are un-issued etc..,I've no answer and I must say I like them..
We could ask the same about the Heer Afrika Schiffchen etc..,un-issued,many and all branche colors..,apparently they're good as well..

Jos.

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Old 07-11-2005, 07:08 PM   #26
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Just some questions for you ,John..

These caps exist for a long time..,howmany people are convinced they might be fake..?
If fake,why aren't they used for re-enacting ?
Once re-enacted they would be more convincing IMO..
I would like to see the first re-enactor wearing one of these..
WILLI..!...,would you like to sling yours through the mud,please..!..

Joking aside,I don't find it that strange to find these caps un-issued instead of dirty etc..,fakes often are treated like that.
Also,nobody is telling strange stories to sell these caps..
Also,try to win one of these on Ebay in the $100.- range,if there're any..
I think it'll be very hard to find one of these caps for a fake price,if so,I'd like another one.

Jos.
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Old 07-11-2005, 07:14 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gene
I could have swore it was like the one posted earlier, and I believe there were several stamps. Here's the stamp in my tropical officer's version, again vet acquired:
Hi Gene, and again the correct font in your tropical. And again, nice cap!

And there were several stamps, but they have certain characteristics that the other stamp in question does not exhibit.

Jos, good questions, but they do not sway me. These are sold as original, just as the thin tropical trousers with aluminum buckles that also have been around "forever." In fact, all that you just said about the caps is also said about the trousers. These caps may be good, so only a fool would reenact in them.
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Old 07-11-2005, 07:35 PM   #28
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Well,the trousers,I know them,were still smelly like new and were sold here for a fraction of the value..+ strange stories..

These caps,which have the right features,were always expensive and are not made of the same material like the trousers..

I think both items are totally different,so is the way they're sold.
I think it's very dangerous to compare this way..
Also,on shows we heard the trousers were not good,till now I never heard one of the dealers telling these caps are fake..,even the bent people do like to have them for their own collections..,for me a very good indication..
Some bent dealers are working here and they've had everything to rip people off,the trousers included...,but never any of these caps for sale..
One has a tropical private collection including one of these caps..,he should've known better..

+ like I said,John..,show me a old fake eagle that looks very convincing like these..,just one..

Jos.

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Old 07-11-2005, 07:46 PM   #29
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Jos, the thin trousers were sold as good for years. It is only since the Forum that they are viewed with caution by the collecting community.

Tropical caps with this questionable style Berolina marking do not bring as much, in the States, as the "textbook" marking. In fact, many here will not own one of the questionable examples. In my experience this is VERY like the thin trousers.

Or the Meyer cap with the RB number that begins with a 9! Just as these schiffen, those Meyers are perfect in every way. And I think they are original, but then there is that wierd 9 and it affects value. A maker marked Meyer, or one with an RB begining with 0, will cost more. I mean, what the heck country does 9 represent. And then, where are the RB numbers 2 through 8!!!!!!!
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Old 07-11-2005, 07:57 PM   #30
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like I said,John..,show me a old fake cap eagle that looks very convincing like these..,just one..
These caps are not from yesterday..but old..
Prove they could make a perfect eagle many,many years ago..

Like I said:If so,better check any of your smocks etc..,better..,what are we doing here and why having a long period of trying to create the perfect eagle if it already was invented years and years ago..?

Time for bed,the brains are running dry..,but think of it..

Jos.
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