wehrmacht awards


Go Back   Wehrmacht-Awards.com Militaria Forums > Wehrmacht Era Militaria > Photos and Paper Items Forum

Photos and Paper Items Forum Awards Document and any photo related to the era.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes

only a dead german...
Old 04-13-2003, 07:49 AM   #1
werner geier
Member
 
werner geier is offline
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: europe
Posts: 404
Default only a dead german...

a small, yet gruesome photo-query.
as every collector of german amateur war-photography will have noticed, there is an abundance of images depicting destroyed “enemy” material, sometimes including rather graphic views of the killed adversary.
but what about german soldiers taking photos of their fallen comrades?
in "afrikakorps, selfportrait" dale mcguirk states "i have yet to see a photo taken by ordinary german soldiers of their own dead as they fell in battle, or any photo showing a comrade in death. (the official photographers did take shots of german dead ). for the average soldier it was common enough to snap the enemy dead, and funeral services and the graves of one´s own comrades, but not the faces of the corpses of your own side."
despite mr. guirk´s rather logical conclusion i managed to find pictures of fallen germans over the years. that they always were single finds, never showed up in albums or connected lots may prove guirk´s point and indicate they were taken by regimental photographers etc.
what is your experience with this?

fallen sturmpioniere. backside caption "juni 1940 unser kampf an der aisne, pionier pfaffmann, pionier winter"



"grab von pionier kurt”

  Reply With Quote

Old 04-13-2003, 11:03 AM   #2
ManuelR
Member
 
ManuelR's Avatar
 
ManuelR is offline
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: the end of the world
Posts: 318
Default

werner, In my years of collecting i have only found
3 or 4 fotos of fallen germans. above a terrible foto of what war really is!!!!!!!!
this photo is from a german photo album .
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-13-2003, 01:14 PM   #3
Perry Floyd
Lifetime Member
 
Perry Floyd's Avatar
 
Perry Floyd is offline
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: North Carolina USA
Posts: 10,601
Default

I've seen several but it's usually the opposite sides photo album...I've seen dead Axis troops in WAC, WAVE photo albums even...but hardly no dead Allied...
Usually pics are not taken of one's own dead troops out in the open like that but more of the enemy's dead...
That's been my experiances looking through photo albums..
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-14-2003, 09:08 AM   #4
werner geier
Member
 
werner geier is offline
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: europe
Posts: 404
Default

i didnt want to offend anyone with this thread. obviously i did, as the postings wont flow.
sure this is a macabre subject, that must have been very taboo even in this wartime, when morals&ethics were turned upside down and dying was an ubiquitous thing. i am not interested in the sensationalistic aspect of these pics at all, i even dont collect them (i found them by chance). they make me sick as probably everyone else, but finding out more about their background, why they were taken will imho shed some light on the feelings and emotionality of those people, whose photos we are collecting.



  Reply With Quote

Old 04-14-2003, 09:18 AM   #5
ManuelR
Member
 
ManuelR's Avatar
 
ManuelR is offline
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: the end of the world
Posts: 318
Default

werner, . the important thing is to show the people that war is terrible and this is the face of it!
from any side ,nobody is invensible! regards manuel
I lost lots of my family in that war .Not everithing is nice in our hobby.
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-14-2003, 09:39 AM   #6
JaimeH
Member
 
JaimeH's Avatar
 
JaimeH is offline
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fort Mill SC, & Lakewood Ohio USA
Posts: 1,912
Default

What I find interesting is the similiarity of the various albums.
You see a photo of three German friends in front of the Eiffel Tower say circa 1941, then almost the exact pose of three Americans circa 1945. Also, of the millions of war photos taken there seems to be a very small amount of "horror" photos.
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-14-2003, 10:03 AM   #7
Akira Takiguchi
Moderator
 
Akira Takiguchi's Avatar
 
Akira Takiguchi is offline
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Posts: 3,184
Default

Dear Werner,

I believe that very few, if any, will be offended by this topic, rest assured about it! All serious photo collectors know what they see in their collection. I do have several german deads in my albums.

For me, it is a very difficult subject to present. But I do not feel it a taboo. Just I wonder, maybe too much, how I can show the photo with my best respect to the deceased. I'll give it some thoughts more, then I will show some from mine.
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-14-2003, 10:07 AM   #8
werner geier
Member
 
werner geier is offline
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: europe
Posts: 404
Default

thanks akira for the backup.
manuel, i agree 110% with you in this. although nothing is wrong in doing research, we have a responsibility in not makin the war subject look as it was all good clean fun, when especially we should know better.
and jaime, isnt it remarkable how many private war snaps look like holiday pics? as if the guys were just on a short trip to afrika, norway, russia etc.only the return ticket wasnt included...

this is as horrible as it gets. seen recently on epier. out of an album most likely taken by an official unit photographer

  Reply With Quote

Old 04-14-2003, 10:11 AM   #9
Akira Takiguchi
Moderator
 
Akira Takiguchi's Avatar
 
Akira Takiguchi is offline
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Posts: 3,184
Default

These pictures reminded me of Plievier's Stalingrad.
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-14-2003, 10:18 AM   #10
werner geier
Member
 
werner geier is offline
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: europe
Posts: 404
Default

i really would like to hear robert´s "photosammler" comment on this. if 60.000 photos have passed through your hands...
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-17-2003, 12:34 AM   #11
Robert Noss
Member
 
Robert Noss is offline
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Olching, Bavaria,Germany
Posts: 508
Default

I just returned from nightshift when I read this thread. I will give my comment and post some photos later on this day, but let me first get some sleep.

Kind regards
Robert
  Reply With Quote

Photos of dead german soldiers
Old 04-17-2003, 09:08 AM   #12
Robert Noss
Member
 
Robert Noss is offline
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Olching, Bavaria,Germany
Posts: 508
Default Photos of dead german soldiers

This is an interesting subject. In all my photos and albums there is a remarkable lack of those pictures. As our soldiers took millions of photos (private snapshots, not press-photography) one has to wonder that there was a good reason for them, not to take pictures of dead german soldiers.
The story goes, that it was forbidden to take pictures of own losses, own destroyed tanks, planes, weapons. I say - the story goes - cause I have never seen written evidence of that order so far. I doubt that it was a general order by the high command, but there might have been local orders from lower unit commanders, maybe. There are photos of destroyed german tanks, downed airplanes and destroyed guns, so this order (if it existed) was not obeyed.
We also see lots of photos of graves and funerals, so the own losses were visible.

My conclusion (and I can be wrong) is, that it was a moral decision of each individual not to take "snapshots" of corpses that had been good comrades a few hours before.
It is a complete different thing to make pictures of dead enemies as to show the cruelty of war on your own people.
There is also another reason, in company with the moral thing, only few soldiers made photos during a battle, most photos were made before or after the fightings and I think the own losses were immediately taken care of, removed from the battlefield and brought backwards. Not so with the enemy losses, the german soldier while marching forward came by these enemy losses and took photos.
I also have only very, very few photos where I can definetely say they are german corpses. I did not have had the time to look for them today, maybe later.
I am off to work soon, here are only few pictures of wounded and graves, photos which were taken in masses, also to show the people at home that the wounded were treated well and the fallen have got a peaceful rest.


Also not photographed very often are pictures of medical operations.












This last photo is not really belonging to the subject, but is a nice shot of a 1st WW Sani-truck.

Kind regards
Robert

Last edited by photosammler; 04-17-2003 at 09:19 AM.
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-17-2003, 09:28 AM   #13
erichcraciun
Association Member
 
erichcraciun's Avatar
 
erichcraciun is offline
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: EMEA
Posts: 3,110
Default

Hallo Robert,

the second foto looks like a Polish Sani working on the wounded German soldier. Am I correct?

Erich Craciun
__________________
ende
Suche alles über die 357. Infanterie Division sowie Grenadier Regimenter 944, 945 und 946.
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-17-2003, 09:46 AM   #14
Robert Noss
Member
 
Robert Noss is offline
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Olching, Bavaria,Germany
Posts: 508
Default

Absolutely Erich.
This photo is out of an album with very good photos of the polish campaign from a Gebirgsjäger regiment.
There are also photos that show that the polish soldiers when captured, were not treated bad at all by our mountain troops, but that's a subject of its own, leads always to discussions.

Kind regards

Robert
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-17-2003, 09:58 AM   #15
werner geier
Member
 
werner geier is offline
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: europe
Posts: 404
Default

thanks robert,
i knew you were the one to be asked. i agree with what you say. so these few existing photos of own casualties obviously have to be considered rare oddities. maybe they were taken in a sort of "voodoo"-mechanism, hoping to ban the unspeakable horror by photographing it, transforming it into another realm...

ps. the polish sani pic has an intense 3d-ish presence to it. as it was a movie still...

ps.ps. erich, can you please mail me your email via pm?

Last edited by werner geier; 04-17-2003 at 10:10 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump






vBulletin skins developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright Wehrmacht-Awards.com