LDO stamp on shield paper - Wehrmacht-Awards.com Militaria Forums

Frank Heukemes · 08-28-2002, 01:55 PM

Dear all,

Is this type of LDO and maker stamp on Kuban shields from maker JFS the real thing? Anybody seen this before? Looks a bit like too much proof for authenticity, doesn´t it?

I just wonder because the shield/cloth itself doesn´t look too bad...

Cheers, Frank H.

Mark S. · 08-28-2002, 09:37 PM

I think youre right Frank....a little to much going on there. JFS was a prolific badge maker. I would expect to see other examples of this mark out there. The JFS marked cloth German Crosses seem to be frequently encountered.

Regarding the shield itself, youre right again..it is a good looking shield. Thats whats scary. At any rate, right off the bat I see soemthing I really dont care for, and thats the way the triangle that makes up the letter A seems to be "melded" into the A arms. On most good examples I have seen, they appear as two different graphics, though mated to form the A. I might be off base, but it is something I personally look for in a KUBAN sheild.

I know these were made by different makers, and this all could be attributed to maker variation.

Tim B. · 08-30-2002, 03:14 PM

Frank,

Jamie Cross states in his booklet on Arm Shield Awards, that maker's marks are very rarely encountered, however they do exist. As to ink stampings, when they do occur, usually take the form of the maker's logo or name and are "small" ink stamps on the paper backing. Goes on to say as the shields are affixed to uniform sleeves, the markings are pointless in any case.

He comments on examining a Krim shield which had a JFS in cartouche logo in white ink on black paper reverse that was supposedly vet obtained.

As the ink stamps are easy to fake, it's probably near impossible to determine whether or not the stamps are original or post-war additions manufactured to possibly increase value and rarity.

Here's one of my Krim shields on Heer backing that shows the "J.F.S. 42" ink stamp (white ink) on the reverse. I have seen a few items marked this way with the date type of stamping.

I know the shield is good, but the mark?
Tim

Tim B. · 08-30-2002, 03:17 PM

Reverse w/maker's mark.

Tim B. · 08-30-2002, 03:29 PM

Here's a close-up of my Kuban shield showing the letters. I can see differences as well, though maker's may have slightly different patterns.

On Kuban shields, I note the shape and size of the holes in the letter "B" as well.
Tim

Frank Heukemes · 08-30-2002, 05:34 PM

Thanks for that other JFS example, Tim. Has anybody ever seen that type of LDO stamp before?

Cheers, Frank H.

Ralph A · 08-30-2002, 09:30 PM

Here's a couple more for comparison's sake:

Tim B. · 08-31-2002, 01:05 AM

Nice shields.

I have noticed that overall, the Krim shields seem to have better detail to them as compared to the Kuban shields. Of course there is a year difference in manufacture of these items and I'm sure that's one of the main reasons.

Does anyone have a Kuban shield that is made out of bronze iron that has exceptional detail to it? I ask this because I was looking into one of my old "History of the World Wars" references (actually a special edition to the magazine periodical) and noticed a very nice looking and quite detailed Kuban shield with backing plate and w/o cloth backing. The eagle is very detailed in the PIC and the head shows a clearly defined eye, beak and scowl. Something Tim Calvert would call "personality".

The book also shows an exceptional looking Lappland and Demjansk shield, both appearing to be manufactured to high standards. Anybody else have this reference? Thoughts?
Tim

Frank Heukemes · 08-31-2002, 07:37 AM

Dear Tim,

Mine shown below (not the one shown on the very top of the thread which I do NOT own) is magnetic but I always liked its detail on the eagle´s head. Another spot where I think the detail varies a lot among Kuban´s is the word NOWORO SSUSK on the very bottom. I am also happy to have one here that is very crisp in that spot.

Also notice the backpin variant (2 broken off) which is a bit rarer that the four "clips" but also valid.

Cheers, Frank

Frank Heukemes · 08-31-2002, 07:39 AM

reverse

Frank Heukemes · 08-31-2002, 07:45 AM

head closeup

Mark S. · 08-31-2002, 12:18 PM

ok, my turn. This one appears to be the same type as one of them shown above, but it clearly illustrates the point about the upside down triangle in the A that I mentioned previously.

What do you guys think about my "A" theory?

Tim B. · 08-31-2002, 01:12 PM

Frank,

Thanks for sharing those and yes your shield has nice details to it as well. I like the eagle's head! The one in my book is probably more mint and that's why the details appear so crisp. Kind of hard to say if it's the same style as that one.

My shield also has really sharp details to it, though the details appear a little lost due to the light shining off it. Here's the bottom:
Tim

Ralph A · 08-31-2002, 07:34 PM

Mark:

I'll buy into the theory. There is an obvious difference in the traigles that make up the "A's" transverse bar.

Also note that the two contiguous "S's" in Noworossijsk on our shields seem to lack the lower curves on the two letters.

Mark S. · 08-31-2002, 09:03 PM

Tim, always a pleasure to see your beautiful shields. I really enjoy the KRIM shield, that eagle is awesome.

Ralph, Youre right about the lettering, also I was studying these pictures this morning, and it almost appears as if we have two distinct type of KUBAN shield here. Other points of interest are the flat top wing edge, the last "step" that adjoins to the KUBAN title, and a stepped swastika. The finish seems to be consistant too. Mine has tabs on the edges, what kind is yours?

Maybe these are just at both ends of the variation spectrum? I dont know. Although I have no solid proof that the "melded A" type arent right, it seems that everytime I have run across one, I also find other things about it that bother me.

What do you think Frank? Real w/shield/bogus marks, real/real, or bad/bad?