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Bundesrepublik Deutschland, 1949-Present From West Germany through to the modern reunified German Republic.

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Old 05-23-2011, 10:38 PM   #16
RedCatcher1986
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Old 05-23-2011, 10:44 PM   #17
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OK, got the pics to load for me (browser glitch of some sort). It looks like those guys in the back of the truck are wearing Austrian straps. At least they aren't inconsistent with the features of Austrian straps. Considering we know, for sure, that the BW had some use of these, I'd say it's a good bet that is what they are.

I have never, ever seen the early service belt for sale before. I've seen the 2nd Model field belt, which has the same style of buckle, but never one with leather. Very nice!

I looked for the Enfields and didn't see any. I saw Garands and G1s only. Did I miss something?

Steve
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Old 05-23-2011, 10:47 PM   #18
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Hmmm... what helmet are they wearing here?



It looks to be a M1 style helmet, but with 3 point helmet straps. With a date of 1957 I don't know what this could be since at the time only the FJ type helmets had 3 point helmet straps.

Steve
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BW-Helmet
Old 05-24-2011, 01:13 AM   #19
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Steve,

according to Baer, there had been several Models of Helmets tested for the
Fallschirmjäger. One of them had been a shortened M1. Interestingly, most
of the pictures with these test helmets shows artillery troops.

Best regards from Germany

Reiner
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Old 05-24-2011, 09:47 AM   #20
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You must be overworked again, Steve, or else you handle so many new acquisitions on a regular basis that you need to purge your memory every six months. I bet you can spend a few hours in your own toy room and 'discover' boatloads of rare and never-before-seen artifacts :

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...=362510&page=5


Gene T
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Old 05-24-2011, 05:56 PM   #21
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Gene,

'tis true, I have way too much stuff and BW is only a small portion of what I collect (though the deepest of any one subject). Still, I don't remember knowing that a cut down M1 version existed prior to the M62. In any case, hopefully the info will stick now

Reiner,

Interesting they seem to be associated with artillery. The usual way to trial a particular piece of equipment is to give it to an entire unit. I am sure these helmets, of all early types, were made in small numbers. Which seems to indicate that this particular helmet was (mostly) trialed by the artillery elements of the FJ.

Steve
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Old 05-24-2011, 09:05 PM   #22
Guardian 5
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RedCatcher1986 - Thanks for providing another delightful download of early pix to digest. I haven't quite finished ogling your previous contribution.

I wish Frau Cullinane was as admiring of my collecting habits as you are...

There are some hardcore aviation types lurking about and it will only be a matter of time before they seek you out.


Daniel - The Bundeswehr was provided with 25,000 Lee-Enfield Mark IVs and a number of Bren Gun Carriers, presumably by the U.K.

Photographic evidence would suggest that most of the Enfields were passed on to the Luftwaffe. This was probably done to simplify resupply (Heer, M1 Garands, .30 caliber / Luftwaffe, Enfields, .303).

The Enfields are seen in the last picture of the first post and below with the Luftwaffe's 44th Flak Battalion. I'll get that hat I owe you out this weekend.


Steve - I can't leave the Y-strap / tornister thing alone. You're probably right, but I need more evidence.

All the best - TJ
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FJ-Testhelmet
Old 05-25-2011, 01:06 AM   #23
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Steve,

most of the test-helmet-pictures shows guys with 105 mm howitzers and
without any equipment. So it is hard to tell if they are FJ´s or normal arty,
until someone identifies the special FJ-camo-uniform on them.
Maybe they tested the helmets for better manning heavy weapons (improved
sight, hearing etc.)? Oh, those early days, lots of theory, no documents...
but that makes this hobby so interesting, doesn´t it?

Best regards

Reiner
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Equipment dedicated
Old 05-25-2011, 01:19 AM   #24
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TJ,

for you "Equipment-addict" I have another nice quest:
in my collection is a tornister without any stamps (and sadly missing the
carrying straps), with cries in every meaning "early BGS"! It´s in BGS-green canvas, the inner frame is of BGS-green metal, the fitting is black leather....
But nowhere are any pictures or documents to find that the BGS ever used
tornister! No veteran has any rememberance of that, they all only know the
rucksack. Interestingly, in the book "Camouflaged uniforms of the Wehrmacht"
the guy in the first BGS-Tan/Water uniform wears a tornister, but you can´t see
any details....Hey, maybe the BW-Guys in the picture in this thread are former BGS-Guys with this tornisters????

Best regards

Reiner
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Old 05-25-2011, 09:27 AM   #25
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TJ,

Thanks sir!

As far as the Enfields, I wonder what the BW thought of them?, they arent bad little rifles, but as far as the very early issue goes, Garands they aint!
Its not fair in my mind to compare the FN FAL (G1) and G3 to the older generation weapons like the M1 and N0.4 Enfield.
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Old 05-26-2011, 08:42 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PASSAUER8884 View Post
TJ,

Thanks sir!

As far as the Enfields, I wonder what the BW thought of them?, they arent bad little rifles, but as far as the very early issue goes, Garands they aint!
Its not fair in my mind to compare the FN FAL (G1) and G3 to the older generation weapons like the M1 and N0.4 Enfield.
Yes the Enfield is no Garand by any means. With surplus Western rifles what about the surplus Mausers German soldiers were already familiar with using? Im surprised the fledgling Bundeswehr didn't just grind the swastikas off the amount of Mausers they had post-war and reissue them to field units. The Wachbataillon didn't de-nazify their k98s until 1995, we can't say that their weren't surplus Mausers to be used. Then again by 1955 the day of the bolt-action rifle was on its way out and rifles like the Garand were on their way in. But that doesn't explain the Enfield then. Hmmm.
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Old 05-26-2011, 11:27 AM   #27
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The Enfield carried ten rounds in its belly to the Garand's eight and the K98's five. It can be safely and easily unloaded through the detachment of its magazine, or topped off with loose rounds. It has very practical and well protected sights, a super slick and fast action (compared to that of the K98) that's quieter (and stealthier) to operate than any semi auto, with better reliability under adverse conditions. It has a significantly better trigger than the FAL or G3, and can accurately reach out and touch anything that a 7.62x51 battle rifle can hit. In the hands of a competent rifleman, the Enfield is really only inferior to the later semi-autos in its rate of fire, and it's debatable whether that constitutes an actual inferiority at all.

The real motivation behind the (temporary) adoption of the Enfield by the reconstituted Luftwaffe likely had more to do with political considerations and logistics than anything else, but in practical terms, those early soldiers were in no way short-changed with regard to the type of rifle they were issued, either relative to their Garand-carrying peers or even the FAL or G3 equipped soldiers who followed them years and decades later.

Considering that the British had had many decades of field experience in all corners of the world (different climates, terrains, logistical constraints, etc.) to draw from to perfect their Enfield design, as well as the technological and financial means to carry the project through, it should come as no surprise that the end product got so many things more "right" than its contemporaries, even if it wasn't quite the prettiest to look at.


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Last edited by Gene T; 05-26-2011 at 11:32 AM.
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Old 05-26-2011, 11:42 AM   #28
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Gene, Oh yeah I like the Enfield No.4. I own a 1943 Maltby example. The Garand is just a hell of a rifle. It just looks odd to see large numbers of German troops with them, not bad, just odd.
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Old 05-26-2011, 04:47 PM   #29
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I've also seen pictures of early Bundeswehr troops carrying the Browning Automatic Rifle, I wonder what they thought of that as a squad based assault weapon?
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Old 05-26-2011, 07:18 PM   #30
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RedCatcher1986 - Here is an excerpt from a monograph I've been preparing on the early BW regarding their opinion of the BAR:

The hard hitting .30 Caliber M1918A2 Browning Automatic Rifle or “BAR “ was the basic automatic support weapon of the U.S. Army in World War II and Korea. One or two BARs were issued to every Bundeswehr infantry squad. In Bundeswehr service it was criticized for its heavy weight (18. 5 pounds) and limited rate of fire. A retired Bundeswehr Captain who encountered the BAR shortly after being drafted in 1957 described the BAR as a “somewhat strange American MG with magazine” and referred to it as the “Heeresanklopfgerät” (i.e. "army bashing apparatus").

All the best - TJ
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