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Political Organizations All aspects of Third Reich Political Organizations, including the SA, NSDAP, NSKK, NSFK, DAF, NSKOV, etc.

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Old 02-18-2020, 04:35 PM   #16
Br. James
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Thanks, Ingo, for providing a copy of the RZM regs for Brownshirts approved for wear by the SA, SS, NSKK and PL. I see that this illustrates that one must pay close attention to illustrations provided by photos and drawings in addition to text, as the text does not always provide the complete level of detail of what one may be searching for.

Cheers, my friend,

Br. James
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Old 02-18-2020, 06:20 PM   #17
ivbaust
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Thanks, Br. James

Here’s another SA shirt ... this time with upper and lower bakelite buttons
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Old 02-18-2020, 09:32 PM   #18
TooDeep
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Ostland/Westfalen brownshirt I got this last week. I would share more picture, but the WAF is being funny and will not let me upload more.
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Old 02-18-2020, 10:10 PM   #19
Nick E
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I find it odd hardly any brownshirts or tunics in collections have service litzen on the sleeves.I had 2 out of 8 that had it and my dentist tunic also.Makes you wonder how many are put together as the litzen is hard to find.Maybe not so much on low ranks but high ranks should most always have some
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Old 02-18-2020, 11:01 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick E View Post
I find it odd hardly any brownshirts or tunics in collections have service litzen on the sleeves.I had 2 out of 8 that had it and my dentist tunic also.Makes you wonder how many are put together as the litzen is hard to find.Maybe not so much on low ranks but high ranks should most always have some
Dentist tunic? I'd love to see pics of that. SA medical is my favorite.

Sydney
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Old 02-18-2020, 11:04 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TooDeep View Post
Ostland/Westfalen brownshirt I got this last week. I would share more picture, but the WAF is being funny and will not let me upload more.
Gold buttons is Ostland, silver Westfalen

Sydney
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Old 02-18-2020, 11:10 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squidney86 View Post
Gold buttons is Ostland, silver Westfalen

Sydney
I didn't know that. Thank you.
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Old 02-18-2020, 11:35 PM   #23
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I didn't know that. Thank you.
The distinguishing differences between Gruppes that share color combos is button color. But there are times when piping colors are different as well.
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Old 02-19-2020, 08:52 AM   #24
wilhelm Saris
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Thanks Ingo for showing the drawing from the RZM, which I had, but could not opload.

In many catalogues the closing button for the collar is not included, but in some it is and is phrased as Kragenbundknopf with a size of about 12 mm. Also buttons with the size 14-15 mm do exist. The material for the buttons is "Horn" or "Steinnuss", but were also available in metal. Other materials are not mentioned (and so you will not find bakelite). In the RZM manufacturing regulations from 1936 also Perlemutter-buttons (mother-of-pearl) were mentioned

The larger buttons are available with the size 20,5 mm, available to sew on or with a split-pen. The buttons for the breast-pockets can be 18 mm and are also available to screw on.
(most) Often the larger size was used. Manufacturing-regulations do mention the larger buttons to be 20,5 and 18 mm; the buttons for the pockets to be 15. Hardly ever one will find this
size at a pocket.

With NSKK most often all buttons had the same size, as was with the NSFK.

I agree with Nick E about the years of service stripes. For me this is often a sign a brown-shirt was pimped, as they could not find the Litze, it was not sewn on.
Also low ranks often were authorized.
When I did collect in the seventies and eighties, all my SA brown-shirts had one or more of such braids and what was offered most often also had them! I owned
four of them. The NSKK did not have a braid, which is normal. They had to wear the chevron instead (regulations 1935).

Last edited by wilhelm Saris; 02-19-2020 at 09:31 AM.
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Old 02-19-2020, 10:02 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squidney86 View Post
Dentist tunic? I'd love to see pics of that. SA medical is my favorite.

Sydney
my old collection I reposted recently look on this page of threads for * Brown uniforms collection in title
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Old 02-19-2020, 10:04 AM   #26
Nick E
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wilhelm Saris View Post
Thanks Ingo for showing the drawing from the RZM, which I had, but could not opload.

In many catalogues the closing button for the collar is not included, but in some it is and is phrased as Kragenbundknopf with a size of about 12 mm. Also buttons with the size 14-15 mm do exist. The material for the buttons is "Horn" or "Steinnuss", but were also available in metal. Other materials are not mentioned (and so you will not find bakelite). In the RZM manufacturing regulations from 1936 also Perlemutter-buttons (mother-of-pearl) were mentioned

The larger buttons are available with the size 20,5 mm, available to sew on or with a split-pen. The buttons for the breast-pockets can be 18 mm and are also available to screw on.
(most) Often the larger size was used. Manufacturing-regulations do mention the larger buttons to be 20,5 and 18 mm; the buttons for the pockets to be 15. Hardly ever one will find this
size at a pocket.

With NSKK most often all buttons had the same size, as was with the NSFK.

I agree with Nick E about the years of service stripes. For me this is often a sign a brown-shirt was pimped, as they could not find the Litze, it was not sewn on.
Also low ranks often were authorized.
When I did collect in the seventies and eighties, all my SA brown-shirts had one or more of such braids and what was offered most often also had them! I owned
four of them. The NSKK did not have a braid, which is normal. They had to wear the chevron instead (regulations 1935).
exactly ..but I was saying some lower ranks may not have been in the SA long enough to have had the litzen.But Yes I've had low ranks with it also.
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Old 02-19-2020, 10:20 AM   #27
Tony & Kaiser
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According to The SA by David Littlejohn, the cuff rings were to designate SA membership 1925 to 1933. The SA swelled from two million prior to 1933 to three million after 1933. Does that not indicates that 1 in 3 Brownshirts would not have cuff rings?

I have learned quite a bit in this thread. Really interesting!

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exactly ..but I was saying some lower ranks may not have been in the SA long enough to have had the litzen.But Yes I've had low ranks with it also.
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Old 02-19-2020, 02:50 PM   #28
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Here's his brother...
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Life is like a dream once you know it it's gone !!!!!
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Old 02-19-2020, 03:04 PM   #29
wilhelm Saris
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about the stripes (and chevrons) there was an extensive article, written by me, in the "Military Advisor", number 4 from authumn 1995.
It had lots of pages and photos (of wearing) and all was explained in-depth. All why's and what abouts!
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Old 02-19-2020, 08:06 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony & Kaiser View Post
According to The SA by David Littlejohn, the cuff rings were to designate SA membership 1925 to 1933. The SA swelled from two million prior to 1933 to three million after 1933. Does that not indicates that 1 in 3 Brownshirts would not have cuff rings?

I have learned quite a bit in this thread. Really interesting!
Sure if all had survived,my point is it's not 1 out of 3 ,or even close..its more like 1 out of 20 as to what's around today.Even more possibly.I only bought shirts with them after this dawned on me.And I owned only 3..2 brownshirt and 1 tunic with them .And about 8 without.4 of min3 are seen in a post below..brown uniforms collection..u can see the dentist tunic.and an nsfk shirt.I owned the brownshirt that was at Collectors Guild forever with service litzen also.not shown here.

Last edited by Nick E; 02-19-2020 at 08:14 PM.
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