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Tony Barto SS Uniforms and Insignia Forum Dedicated to SS cloth collecting and anything else SS related.

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Old 06-19-2019, 11:00 AM   #46
Zauberflöte
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Originally Posted by FrenchVolunteer View Post
Hi,

so to conclude, if the eagle is as said Bahnschutz, this means that the tunic is rebadged, and then probably post-war rebadged as the eagle is not SS (and no SS officer would have period-rebadged his tunic with a non-SS badge) ?

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Sorry Vince... but that is not necessarily true, we all study the books now, but back then, if for some reason a officer would have preferred an old style eagle out of personal taste, or simply since there would only have been a Bahhschutz eagle available, he (or the tailor) would likely not even have known the difference, or cared for that matter.. if the head would look left or right...

Please visit the thread uniforms I wouldn't buy, many examples of eagle attachments that would not have stand the test here.
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Old 06-19-2019, 11:21 AM   #47
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Hi,

like for all "suspicious" items on the WAF and elsewhere, anyone can choose between the believer and the factual/skeptical approaches.
To see a SS-VT drill tunic, "modified" for an officer, with a (possible) suspicious eagle many seemed to agree on is a bit too much for me and some others, but anyone can disagree...

I just find it amazing to have so many "extraordinary" jackets that do not match regulations. Even more as it also strangely perfectly matches the agenda of most of the lazy/bad crooks for decades.

I may add that more than 80 years after the period, we are still learning everyday on new confirmed originals (or fakes), and that unfortunately most books have errors and missing parts in them...

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Old 06-19-2019, 11:31 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrenchVolunteer View Post
Hi,

like for all "suspicious" items on the WAF and elsewhere, anyone can choose between the believer and the factual/skeptical approaches.
To see a SS-VT drill tunic, "modified" for an officer, with a (possible) suspicious eagle many seemed to agree on is a bit too much for me and some others, but anyone can disagree...

I just find it amazing to have so many "extraordinary" jackets that do not match regulations. Even more as it also strangely perfectly matches the agenda of most of the lazy/bad crooks for decades.
Regardless the insignia, I have ZERO doubts about the tunic it self, you do not? Perhaps because I have seen more pictures of it, but trust me on this... all alterations appear very legitimate, not being arrogant but no need to discuss this IMO, nothing extraordinary about this tunic.

That said, I appreciate your opinion, knowing you do your homework.
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Old 06-19-2019, 12:31 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by John Pic View Post
Well if you consider myself and Jim Toncar trolls you should've given a point by point analysis using your expertise. I have actually owned and examined one of these in hand up close not on a forum screen. I believe Trolls are the ones who just jump into a thread with nothing to offer as advice or information and toss random insults.


I think evaluating a non standard item that we know could have had any number of insignia on it at any point during or after the war is a joke. "Calling out fake" mud slinging and stroking a long white beard to evaluate something you already know has had numerous incarnations is at worst trolling and at best mental masturbation. We know for a fact that the SS-VT used all different types of adlers and collar tabs, it was also film used so to trying to pin down the stitching or insignia is a real waste of time.
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Old 06-19-2019, 02:39 PM   #50
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IMHO any bird with a 'tit' in the top center of the wing will be questionable.

There will be many opinions and we'll just have to live with those different opinions and that it will never be definitively decided.
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Old 06-20-2019, 12:50 AM   #51
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The question of what is a Bahnschutz or an early SS eagle should really be a separate debate IMO.

When the eagle was applied to this particular tunic is anyone's guess and even if it could be proven to be original sewing, it could still be a Bahnschutz design so it's a waste of time arguing about it.
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Old 06-20-2019, 02:14 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenVK View Post
The question of what is a Bahnschutz or an early SS eagle should really be a separate debate IMO.

When the eagle was applied to this particular tunic is anyone's guess and even if it could be proven to be original sewing, it could still be a Bahnschutz design so it's a waste of time arguing about it.
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Old 06-20-2019, 09:26 AM   #53
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The question of what is a Bahnschutz or an early SS eagle should really be a separate debate IMO.
This is what I feel an early SSVT Officers eagle should look like. I've never posted this on the internet before.
Was in a bag of VT stuff which as all authentic.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_0502.jpg (71.3 KB, 177 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0504.jpg (67.0 KB, 177 views)
File Type: jpg SS VT eagle 4 IMG_0505.jpg (49.0 KB, 176 views)
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Old 06-20-2019, 09:32 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Texasuberalles View Post
This is what I feel an early SSVT Officers eagle should look like. I've never posted this on the internet before.
Was in a bag of VT stuff which as all authentic.
With the danger that we start discussing your eagle - let us agree not to do this - but what would your idea be with the left facing head (viewers side), as this is considered Bahnschutz isn't it, like the one on the subject tunic?
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Old 06-20-2019, 09:57 AM   #55
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And you are sure that this is a good one?

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This is what I feel an early SSVT Officers eagle should look like. I've never posted this on the internet before.
Was in a bag of VT stuff which as all authentic.
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Old 06-20-2019, 10:19 AM   #56
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And you are sure that this is a good one?
In the same bag were 3 bullion TK tabs, 2 woven EM TK tabs, a set of Germania boards,
an SS2 tab and 3 old fighters chevrons. Alg. Off #1 and 4, red 5 ct., Germania bullion CT, 2 B&W and one silver and black Alg, shoulder boards and quite a bit of loose black and silver piping.
No one who has seen the items in hand have ever had a problem of any sort with any of the items.

So, yes, I think it's OK.
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Old 06-20-2019, 10:23 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by Zauberflöte View Post
With the danger that we start discussing your eagle - let us agree not to do this - but what would your idea be with the left facing head (viewers side), as this is considered Bahnschutz isn't it, like the one on the subject tunic?
Too late. I've understood the left facing were 'good' for the early VT as well.
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Old 06-20-2019, 11:18 AM   #58
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Looks to be of high quality embroidery.
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Old 06-20-2019, 12:02 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by dhunter93 View Post
I think evaluating a non standard item that we know could have had any number of insignia on it at any point during or after the war is a joke. "Calling out fake" mud slinging and stroking a long white beard to evaluate something you already know has had numerous incarnations is at worst trolling and at best mental masturbation. We know for a fact that the SS-VT used all different types of adlers and collar tabs, it was also film used so to trying to pin down the stitching or insignia is a real waste of time.
So far you haven't contributed anything to this thread about the tunic in question other than an "I like it".
Since it is film used then for someone to think it is untouched and was found this way is quite a stretch. A knowledgeable Dealer or collector however would assume that the eagle needed to be an early one and well any old collar tabs since numbered tabs are scarce....oh and pink piped officer boards on a 1930's tunic...really a stretch, change the boards and tabs but not the eagle which isn't even factory stitched ? But I guess years of study mount to nothing...except people trying to convince themselves their horse came in first when it had only one good leg.
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Old 06-20-2019, 12:07 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Zauberflöte View Post
Regardless the insignia, I have ZERO doubts about the tunic it self, you do not? Perhaps because I have seen more pictures of it, but trust me on this... all alterations appear very legitimate, not being arrogant but no need to discuss this IMO, nothing extraordinary about this tunic.

That said, I appreciate your opinion, knowing you do your homework.
If you are getting it at a good price that tunic is very rare if it shows all the marks of alterations. I just don't believe it to badged during the war. Not many still around in collections.
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