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Early M1867 "dunkelblaue Preußische Unteroffiziere Schirmmütze"
Old 10-07-2018, 09:22 AM   #1
Willi Z.
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Default Early M1867 "dunkelblaue Preußische Unteroffiziere Schirmmütze"

Amoung my Max Show goals was to find a Krätzchen, but I was not successful. I did however find this visor, unit marked to the "143rd Infantry Regiment" (4th Lower Alsatian) which was formed in 1890 in Straßburg - Mutzig.

The cap maker was located Northwest of Strasbourg. I like the thicker piping and the absence of the national colors, so I am thinking the cap was made between 1890 and 1897. Based on when the unit was formed.
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Old 10-07-2018, 10:09 AM   #2
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Might even be earlier with that small visor. Nice cap - great interior.
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Old 10-07-2018, 01:25 PM   #3
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A very nice visor only missing the date it was made. The information inside is remarkable.
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Old 10-07-2018, 01:42 PM   #4
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Yes, wish it had a date. All I can go by is when IR 143 was formed, which was 1890. But yes, the cap was likely made before 1890. I checked every reference I have, to see when these short brim NCO visored hats came out. Paul Pietsch, in his first volume, indicates 1873. Officers likely in 1867.

Here is another one of the caps I picked up at the Max. An earlier cap with the thick piping, in a deep dark blue, and no national colors. Was hoping it might have been a Krätzchen, but based on the wider band, the leather sweatband, and the stiffness of the entire band area, I figured it was a Tellermütze.

Nonetheless, a new area for me to study....
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Old 10-07-2018, 03:11 PM   #5
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Willi, your remarks lead me to the following question - when does a cap qualify as a Tellermuetze and when as a Krätzchen?
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Old 10-07-2018, 05:36 PM   #6
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Well, that is a good question. To me so far, there has been some ambiquity from various sources. So, after checking items on Weitze's site, Tony's site, and Jim's book, it has been getting pretty clear for me.

Here are some examples of Krätzchen I found on the web.

Note that two have EM cockades, and the private purchase piece has a NCO cockade. Note how narrow the band is.
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Old 10-07-2018, 05:38 PM   #7
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Here are interior shots of the same 3. Note the soft pliable sweatband area. To me these are field caps meant to be folded up. Not like the stiff Tellermützen.
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Old 10-07-2018, 05:40 PM   #8
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Here is some information from Paul Pietsch's book. This information was first published in 1912.
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Old 10-07-2018, 05:42 PM   #9
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Here are a couple of Tellermützen I picked up at the Max. NCO cockades, wider bands, leather sweatbands, and a more rigid cap.
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Old 10-07-2018, 05:44 PM   #10
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And finally some information from Jim's book. I bought it from him several years ago, not thinking I would ever have any interest in soft caps.
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Old 10-08-2018, 04:36 AM   #11
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Hi Willi,

thanks for your efforts. I guess we can conclude: the stiff Tellermuetze is for walking out/more formal occasions when the helmet was not worn, the soft Kraetzchen is for daily wear/dienst.

Can we also conclude that a Tellermuetzet is always a private purchase piece?

Thanks! Cheers, Tom

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Ir 143
Old 11-01-2018, 07:10 PM   #12
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Default Ir 143

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willi Z. View Post
Amoung my Max Show goals was to find a Krätzschen, but I was not successful. I did however find this visor, unit marked to the "143rd Infantry Regiment" (4th Lower Alsatian) which was formed in 1890 in Straßburg - Mutzig.

The cap maker was located Northwest of Strasbourg. I like the thicker piping and the absence of the national colors, so I am thinking the cap was made between 1890 and 1897.
Ir 143 3d company barracks in Mutzig still exists...
Nice pieces...
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Old 11-03-2018, 09:11 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ir 143 View Post
Ir 143 3d company barracks in Mutzig still exists...
That is good to know. I have only been in that area once, but plan on returning soon.

Many Chassepot rifles were in an arsenal in Mutzig as well. Is that facility still there? I was looking at a German converted (M71 cartridge) carbine the other day, and would have purchased it if it were not for the missing extractor. It was apparently taken from the arsenal there.
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Chassepot.
Old 12-03-2018, 03:24 PM   #14
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Default Chassepot.

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Originally Posted by Willi Z. View Post
That is good to know. I have only been in that area once, but plan on returning soon.

Many Chassepot rifles were in an arsenal in Mutzig as well. Is that facility still there? I was looking at a German converted (M71 cartridge) carbine the other day, and would have purchased it if it were not for the missing extractor. It was apparently taken from the arsenal there.
Sorry for the late reply. A part of the fabric is still here, but cannot be visited. Many villages around where concerned with military products (edged weapons, cavalry armors..).
In Mutzig you find a nice museum with some fire and edged weapons, cavarly helmets etc.
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Old 02-11-2019, 02:00 PM   #15
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Finally found a Krätzchen at the last Kassel Show. The Garde Korps 1907 stamp sold me. 3rd Garde Ulanen. I have a big interest in the guard formations based in Potsdam.
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