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Odd M40 tunic interior/liner
Old 03-23-2020, 03:01 AM   #1
kaiserwilhelm2
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Default Odd M40 tunic interior/liner

Hi Guys,

How are you? I came across this M40 for sale online. It appears to be a modified M40 for an officer. The interior of the tunic however is rather puzzling. There is no pocket for a field dressing, the stamp is a bit odd and the sewing in the shoulder area is also non-standard (usually seen on Austrian manufactured tunics (pre-WWII enlisted and WWII officer private tailored tunics). I would like to know your thoughts on this interior - has this been seen before? Thanks!

Cheers, Tom
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File Type: jpg M40 Fred 1.jpg (99.7 KB, 287 views)
File Type: jpg M40 Fred 2.jpg (216.9 KB, 286 views)
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Old 03-23-2020, 04:36 AM   #2
Martin Simon
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Any signs of the holes for the belt support hooks?
Although your question relates to the liner, pictures of the entire tunic might reveal some further clues about its origin...
Martin
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Old 03-23-2020, 07:36 AM   #3
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Interesting tunic, and we do need complete photos to make any sort of real judgement call. I've seen the quilted type liner work, which is normally a tailor modification. The neat removal of the bandage pocket and belt supports has been done on other walking out enlisted and officer uniforms, so the practice is acceptable.

More photos, please.

s/f Robert
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Old 03-23-2020, 09:02 AM   #4
Johnny R
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Need to see a picture of the front and back to figure out what it is/was.
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Old 03-23-2020, 09:54 AM   #5
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The material for the inside liner does appear to be correct but would need hands on inspection to determine for sure.
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Old 03-23-2020, 10:38 AM   #6
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It may be Dutch and heavily modified with the 7 button openings closed and replaced to have 5. The padding stitching interval is closer than most Dutch issue tunics but they vary.
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Old 03-23-2020, 11:09 AM   #7
kaiserwilhelm2
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@ Johnny, an interesting thought. Yes that type of stitching can also be found in Dutch tunics. The more greenish colour may also be correct for a former Dutch tunic. However I do not associate that IMO typical German overlap (the broadening overlap close up of the tunic from the lowest button to the top button) with a Dutch tunic.

What to make of it? I just noticed it does not have belt hook support holes. So I do not think it is/was a M40 but it clearly imitates it. Also I do not think it originally had a bandage pocket that was removed. Is it some sort of conversion from a foreign EM tunic (the stamp in it - if original - suggests its a Kammerstuck so in principle for enlisted personnel and not officers) which was then adapted for an officer? I just do not know what to make of it. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg M40 Fred 3.jpg (108.2 KB, 245 views)
File Type: jpg M40 Fred 4.jpg (114.8 KB, 243 views)

Last edited by kaiserwilhelm2; 03-23-2020 at 11:24 AM.
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Old 03-23-2020, 11:17 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny R View Post
It may be Dutch and heavily modified with the 7 button openings closed and replaced to have 5. The padding stitching interval is closer than most Dutch issue tunics but they vary.
I agree with you. A Dutch tunic modified for WH use just sold on German Ebay last week that had the chest baffle stitching like this, and it was a common enough feature.

Without more pictures we're just spit balling. With that much work, though, you'd think they would have added turn-back cuffs. Owners preference, I suppose.

s/f Robert
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Old 03-23-2020, 11:21 AM   #9
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From this picture alone, I'd say not likely Dutch, though.
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Old 03-23-2020, 11:39 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertE View Post
From this picture alone, I'd say not likely Dutch, though.
Austrian pre annexation tunics also had this type of quilting and this pattern of lining or at least close to this.
Combined with the Vienna depot stamp I would look to this being a Austrian made hybrid M40. I would have expected a 38 or 39 date but even so I think this is the answer.

The Dutch origin is a reasonable suggestion but the wool texture and color is not exact for 1940 Dutch and also they tend to use a lot of very dark grey coarse cloth in areas of the lining. All that aside this one clearly is not a Dutch conversion now that we see the exterior photos
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Old 03-23-2020, 11:52 AM   #11
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Yes, with the new pictures it is not Dutch. I will pull some Austrian issue tunics later. It is strange whatever it is but seems a period jacket. What is the unit number on the boards and does it have the pleats running from the upper pockets to the underarm areas?
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Old 03-23-2020, 12:47 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny R View Post
What is the unit number on the boards and does it have the pleats running from the upper pockets to the underarm areas?
11 is the number.

Pleats running from up to ua? I do not think so.
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Old 03-23-2020, 03:48 PM   #13
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IMO it's a regular EM issue M36/40 tunic that has been heavily retailored.
The belt hook holes in the front were probably removed by opening the waist darts and then adding new waist darts in the spots that had the holes in the wool. On the lining on the reverse it was done the same way, you can clearly see a seam there in the first picture. In the back they were probably removed by narrowing down the whole back so the holes vanished through the seams left and right.
All the other changes are obvious from the pictures, the tailor that did this conversion could just have topped it off by adding fake french cuffs, but as it is it's already a job well done making it look like a private purchase tunic.
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Old 03-23-2020, 04:07 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hptm. Fuhrmann View Post
IMO it's a regular EM issue M36/40 tunic that has been heavily retailored.
The belt hook holes in the front were probably removed by opening the waist darts and then adding new waist darts in the spots that had the holes in the wool. On the lining on the reverse it was done the same way, you can clearly see a seam there in the first picture. In the back they were probably removed by narrowing down the whole back so the holes vanished through the seams left and right.
All the other changes are obvious from the pictures, the tailor that did this conversion could just have topped it off by adding fake french cuffs, but as it is it's already a job well done making it look like a private purchase tunic.
You are possibly correct IMO. Even if manufactured with these pre war Austrian characteristics, I think it had some modifications, for sure the collar and some take up in the waist.
What is a little hard for me to see is how the cuff slits and associated seams were so expertly removed but possible and the lining would have had to have been removed then quilted and replaced but also possible. This is a 90cm chest tunic and usually when I see a fully retailored issue tunic where the panels were dissembled and recut they start with a very large tunic. Either way I really like this one but I am partial to pieces showing this degree and quality of extra work.
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Old 03-23-2020, 10:17 PM   #15
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Can you post a picture of the underside of the collar to see if it is factory applied or added? The images do not show all the details clearly. The quilting is different then the Austrian tunics I have both prewar and early war. The quilting may have been tailor done.
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