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Old 03-27-2020, 05:55 PM   #1006
BobI
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I would be happy with any of these!
Bob
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Old 03-27-2020, 06:19 PM   #1007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogprince View Post
As requested. FP
Please may we have photos of the makers and inspectors marks and the pommel
Perhaps posted in the British section
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Old 03-27-2020, 06:55 PM   #1008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickn View Post
Please may we have photos of the makers and inspectors marks and the pommel
Perhaps posted in the British section
Nick, Sorry, I already had it put away as it was not the topic here and weíve been encouraged to stay on course. That probably is not a great loss at the moment because I need to refresh my photographic skills. Itís a Robt or Robert Mole with the steel mounts and I believe correct Tudor style crown on the pommel, as well as the inspection marks. In hand it has a lot more of the original frosting visible on the blade than seen in the photo. Introduced I believe in 1879 I suspect that it might be an earlier one because of the quality of the etching and the embossing/design on the mounts is really well done as compared to the later ones Iíve seen But Iím not a specialist in Scottish dirks so thatís just my sense of it. Fred
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Old 03-27-2020, 07:08 PM   #1009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogprince View Post
Nick, Sorry, I already had it put away as it was not the topic here and weíve been encouraged to stay on course. That probably is not a great loss at the moment because I need to refresh my photographic skills. Itís a Robt or Robert Mole with the steel mounts and I believe correct Tudor style crown on the pommel, as well as the inspection marks. In hand it has a lot more of the original frosting visible on the blade than seen in the photo. Introduced I believe in 1879 I suspect that it might be an earlier one because of the quality of the etching and the embossing/design on the mounts is really well done as compared to the later ones Iíve seen But Iím not a specialist in Scottish dirks so thatís just my sense of it. Fred
Thatís why I said perhaps posted in the British section
Not being snide I am interested in seeing more photos of your dirk
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Old 03-29-2020, 04:40 PM   #1010
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Fred's input on this topic is -by far!- the most interesting that I have red, so far!

If only there were some more honest, critical minds on the forums: the hobby would certainly benefit from it!

Victorman
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Old 03-29-2020, 06:23 PM   #1011
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This may have been discussed earlier and if itís a repeat it is still relevant. The fact being that at some point the pommel nut was removed in a counterclockwise motion which rounded the flats (backside image). The grip split open at the top on the roundel side which has a much wider gap than the crack on backside. (And for Nick a couple of the images that he asked for - and I was wrong itís a St. Edwardís crown.) FP
Attached Images
File Type: jpg grip top roundel.jpg (110.4 KB, 104 views)
File Type: jpg backside.jpg (70.7 KB, 104 views)
File Type: jpg pommel.jpg (74.6 KB, 104 views)
File Type: jpg Robt Mole mkg.jpg (38.2 KB, 104 views)
File Type: jpg military mkgs.jpg (30.8 KB, 103 views)
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Old 03-29-2020, 07:47 PM   #1012
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A quality German maker!
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Old 03-29-2020, 07:52 PM   #1013
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The pommel nut had not been turned in a long time when I saw it, Iíd say since the 30s but for sure not recent. Bigger question is what does it prove or matter if it was recent? It it was mine I would have taken it down and I guarantee that you would not see a trace that I did.
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Old 03-30-2020, 05:46 AM   #1014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogprince View Post
This may have been discussed earlier and if it’s a repeat it is still relevant. The fact being that at some point the pommel nut was removed in a counterclockwise motion which rounded the flats (backside image). The grip split open at the top on the roundel side which has a much wider gap than the crack on backside. (And for Nick a couple of the images that he asked for - and I was wrong it’s a St. Edward’s crown.) FP
Excellent observation, Fred!

Most likely a slightly too big SS-rune was inserted in a grip fabricated of not completely dried out wood, making it split like this...
Not one of the +1000 authentic SA & SS daggers (which -unlike this one- are +80 years old!), that I have inspected had this problem!

And I wonder what that green verdigri is doing there? You get that (in a few weeks/months) by bringing metal parts in contact with leather. Which leather was in contact with that part in this case? This was clearly "grown" and added verdigri!

Both very easy to spot signs of fabrication!

Best regards,

Victorman

PS: very beautiful, nicely detailed, Scottish dagger that you show here, Fred, congratulations!

Last edited by Victorman; 03-30-2020 at 05:58 AM.
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Old 03-30-2020, 09:47 AM   #1015
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A new Tom Wittmann video regarding SA daggers and some good coverage on SA Christmas daggers by Eickhorn and E-Pack.
https://youtu.be/vuGKkphe1hs

I felt this has value to this discussion.

-Serge
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Old 03-30-2020, 10:17 AM   #1016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogprince View Post
This may have been discussed earlier and if itís a repeat it is still relevant. The fact being that at some point the pommel nut was removed in a counterclockwise motion which rounded the flats (backside image). The grip split open at the top on the roundel side which has a much wider gap than the crack on backside. (And for Nick a couple of the images that he asked for - and I was wrong itís a St. Edwardís crown.) FP
Good maker Nice Vicky crown
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Old 03-30-2020, 10:29 AM   #1017
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First verdigris has been removed then itís been added
Please share with us how to grow verdigris like this
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Old 03-30-2020, 10:36 AM   #1018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickn View Post
First verdigris has been removed then itís been added
Please share with us how to grow verdigris like this


Seems to me there is two guys trying there best to destroy a dagger they have never seen before, i doubt very much the grip got cracked trying to force the rune button into the grip recess, the verdigris looks to my eyes genuine , what a carry on
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Old 03-30-2020, 10:52 AM   #1019
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickn View Post
First verdigris has been removed then itís been added
Please share with us how to grow verdigris like this
Acid is one way, the acid from the wood that causes the Verdigris naturally inside the sockets of the crossguards, or with leather around copper based rivets on slings etc. The acid or acids can also be manufactured. FP
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Old 03-30-2020, 11:06 AM   #1020
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Victorman View Post
Excellent observation, Fred!

Most likely a slightly too big SS-rune was inserted in a grip fabricated of not completely dried out wood, making it split like this...
Not one of the +1000 authentic SA & SS daggers (which -unlike this one- are +80 years old!), that I have inspected had this problem!

And I wonder what that green verdigri is doing there? You get that (in a few weeks/months) by bringing metal parts in contact with leather. Which leather was in contact with that part in this case? This was clearly "grown" and added verdigri!

Both very easy to spot signs of fabrication!

Best regards,

Victorman

PS: very beautiful, nicely detailed, Scottish dagger that you show here, Fred, congratulations!
Thank You Victorman, I liked it the first moment I saw it. The history, the hand crafted workmanship, the I believe genuine not man made Ebony grip. Unfortunately I’ve not had the in person opportunity to acquire another one as a mate repeated. Although I imagine that is probably not the same situation in the UK.

As for the Verdigris while there might be some guys who could dismantle a dagger without anyone able to tell it - that is not the case here. That’s because you can see some faint but visible swirl marks most likely from a wrench or the wrench that rounded off the corners. Was new Verdigris added to try and cover up a more recent disassembly? It’s probably impossible to say without seeing the inside condition of the crossguards. And it's possible I imagine that it could have been a few decades ago. Who knows? Fred
Attached Images
File Type: jpg top of upper crossguard 1.jpg (21.9 KB, 72 views)
File Type: jpg top of upper crossguard 2.jpg (22.1 KB, 71 views)
File Type: jpg top of upper crossguard 3.jpg (22.7 KB, 71 views)
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