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Indo China Wars 1945 - 1975. Covering, French Indo China, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, etc.

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Opinions on beret
Old 06-13-2010, 08:42 AM   #1
all-bull
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Hello everyone,
I would like some opinions this Airborne beret. I am pretty sure I will be getting rid of it, as it is badly damaged, but I would like to know if it's real or not. I originally thought the beret and patch were good, but the label is really throwing me off. To me, it's looks like a xerox with a fairy new plastic cover. So I am turning to you guys for help. Thanks!
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Old 06-13-2010, 08:42 AM   #2
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badge
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Old 06-13-2010, 08:43 AM   #3
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Old 06-13-2010, 08:44 AM   #4
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beret construction
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Old 06-13-2010, 08:45 AM   #5
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gromets, inside
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Old 06-19-2010, 07:47 AM   #6
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no one can tell me if this is real or fake? Thanks guys!
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Old 06-19-2010, 08:41 AM   #7
Howard Kelley
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The beret does appear to be original.

The insignia is a-bit different, but nothing gives me the impression that the insignia is fake.

The lable inside is not like anything I've seen before. Might be a fake tag to add value? I don't know.

Wish I could be of better help.

Bob would be the best person to chime in on this piece.
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Old 06-19-2010, 08:57 AM   #8
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Hello ALL-Bull,
Or whatever your name is! First of all you need to be patient, also replies like you just made will get you no where very quickly.
I have looked at your beret and from your pictures I have no problem with the flash. The beret may also be OK but most collectors do not like Vietnamese made berets with grommets. Even though Patrick has posted some good quality pictures of Berets being worn in country with grommets present. A simple search would have turned these photos up!
The condition of this particular beret would make this a mute issue as the mothing makes the beret quite without value.
If it were mine I would probably just take the flash off and discard the rest.
I also do not like the label, this particular tailor used paper labels like these on medal and insignia boxes, but to my kowledge never on berets!
Many collectors do not like to express their opinions on whether an item is good or not, it usually just leads to pissing matches so when no opinions are expressed you can sometimes assume that the item may have troubles.
These are just my opinions, take them or leave them! Jeff
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Old 06-19-2010, 11:12 AM   #9
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Howard,
We really appreciate your comments. We have always appreciated your knowledge and opinions. Always happy to deal with you. We had someone interested in this beret, but I did not want to sell it unless I was positive one way or the other on it. I agree with you now that it is probably an "enhanced" piece. I have never seen a period beret with this type label before, though.

Jeff,
Or whatever your name is. Nice to meet you, too. If you read my first post and my title, I wanted opinions. And every opinion counts. Most of the people on here are very knowledgeable. I do not know why collectors would not like a beret with grommets. I, as a collector, appreciate all types of variations. Also, this topic stated a week ago and had had no other postings. I put it at the top this morning, and had two opinions within an hour. It seems to have really jump started this thread by my doing that. Before I sold the beret, as real or not, I thought about restoring it. But I will show the buyer your comments, and then he may wish to strip it and throw the beret away. I was merely seeking advice.

Thanks to both of you.
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Old 06-20-2010, 02:48 PM   #10
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I don't have enough expertise to comment on whether the beret looks original or not, but I can say I think it is RIDICULOUS to cut the insignia off the beret and throw the rest away.
Doing this both lowers the value and destroys the item even further.

A good beret badge on a damaged before is worth more than a good beret badge by itself.

Aside from this, we are supposed to be antique collectors here, i.e. preserving history, and throwing away parts of an item because it is damaged is just absurd. At the very least, give these parts to the buyer for free if you are already determined to remove the pieces.

I know of several purchases I have made of ARVN cap badge/insignia that have been removed from damaged headgear that was thrown away by the seller. I am sorry, but this is just STUPID.
I would easily pay higher for a badge on a damaged cap than I would for it by itself.
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Old 06-20-2010, 11:40 PM   #11
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Darwin-This is one time where you and I will not agree. There have been many times where I have had moth eaten berets, or even fake berets with real inisgnia on them. The only option was to sepearte them and get rid of the "bug food" / fake item. While I applaud you for appreciation of history, you are by far the exception. 99.9999999% of collectors / buyers, would only point out the rough shape the beret is in, or that it is fake, and wouldn't bother with the insignia. But a couple of months later when they just see the insignia they will be all over it, and have to own it. This goes for all aspects of militaria not just Vietnam.
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Old 06-21-2010, 05:24 AM   #12
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But if you separate all the old stuff from the badges, then you can put most of the US civil war, Napoleonian War, WWI uniforms, kepis, caps, unit flags etc, to the trash and just keep the buttons... I am 1000% with Darwin on that one.

Fakes are a different matter, of course.
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Old 06-21-2010, 11:36 AM   #13
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For me the beret look good .

Its nice the good little moths have eaten some beret away as we can see the lining fabric which is what you want to see.

I dont know about makers not using these labels but a manufacturer will sometimes do anything to make a buck in a time of crises .

I am with Darwin ion this one .


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Old 06-21-2010, 12:06 PM   #14
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It's sometimes fun to agree to disagree, I was on a debate team once, although I did poorly....

I should probably clarify a couple of things, which I would have done but only remembered to do so after the time limit for editing my post had passed.
First, I should say I am not directly discussing the beret above, but rather the topic in general of separating insignia from clothing items.

For separating insignia from any type of item, i.e. beret,cap,shirt, etc, I don't see any issue with it if fakes are involved, whether it be a fake beret with a real flash or an original shirt with fake patches or patches that are original-but are not original to the shirt and were added later by some collector/dealer. In these situations, the pairing of the insignia to the items is not original "period done", and I would also separate these items.

The feeling that I have is just simply that removing original insignia from an original item where the insignia is also original to the item, because one or the other has some damage is wrong.
And, I wanted to say that in these situations although a number of collectors would be instantly scared by the damage, there still are some who wouldn't mind, and even pay higher for the items together in original condition, like me.
Aside from this, from a preservation perspective (apart from market value) it is important to keep components original to each other together. If everything was separated due to damaged portions, we would eventually be left with just buttons to collect.

For a very similar anecdote, I purchased a Cao Dai beret badge a couple of years ago from a seller on Ebay. After winning the auction, since the seller seemed to never really list any Vietnam items at all, I asked if he remembered how he came by it. I was told he found it at a shop the week before, and that it had been on a brown/khaki beret, which had heavy mothing. He sent me a photo of the badge on the beret which he had emailed to a friend to get an ID on the item. The friend offered him the same advice to cut off the badge and throw the rest away, which he did. The badge sold on Ebay for around $20. I honestly told him I would have paid at least $100 or more if it was still on the beret, regardless of the damage.
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Old 06-21-2010, 02:10 PM   #15
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Darwin, Darwin, Darwin...

Do you have to mention anything to do with the evil Cao Dai emblems / badges. You know it will not lead to anything good here.......
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