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Clemens Wagner M40 dated March '42 for discussion ?
Old 10-16-2010, 12:28 AM   #1
Tim O'Keefe
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Default Clemens Wagner M40 dated March '42 for discussion ?

Greetings Everyone,

I think we have found one at last...
Ralph Heinz has allowed Mark & i to post a photo of his stamped CW M40 cap, with Mark's help. (thankyou, with much gratitude)

It has the typical oval CW stamp with MRZ42 in the center and both city's at the bottom. It actually doesn't show a lot of use but the man put his name in it: "BARHORST." Notice the insignia application which matches the sidecaps from this maker. The Eagle jumps out at you just like the sidecaps. We will have to wait for Ralph's book on German Tropical Uniforms to see the interior....look forwards to that.

Would like to here all opinions from everyone on this cap from this photo ?

Heia Safari
Tim
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Old 10-16-2010, 12:39 AM   #2
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File Type: jpg CW M40 Trans..jpg (60.7 KB, 1307 views)
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Old 10-16-2010, 12:42 AM   #3
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and hello to you too Mark and Tim

This is interesting. It at least doesn't look like a tropical sidecap that has been converted judging by the placement of the grommets. I do look forward to seeing more of this one.

Mark
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Old 10-16-2010, 01:39 AM   #4
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I like it ,, can we see some shots of the interior ? ,, very interesting looking cap ..
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Old 10-16-2010, 01:45 AM   #5
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Hi Mark & Paul

Thanks for your thoughts, it is appreciated. Am working on getting some interior photos, hopefully soon.
Would like to hear more member thoughts too...
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Old 10-16-2010, 02:45 AM   #6
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Looks good so far Tim, when can we see some more pics, you know what is needed, MM, Grommets etc...

Jerry
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Old 10-16-2010, 03:36 AM   #7
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It looks great from this picture and considering that Ralph is a top DAK collector the odds say that such caps were prodused...let's wait and see!

All the best,
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Old 10-17-2010, 12:19 AM   #8
Tim O'Keefe
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Hi Jerry & Tony,

Thanks for your thoughts on this unusual cap. So far no-one has said its a bad one. And yes it is hard to make a correct judgement from just a single photo.

Hope more will be forth coming soon. But still would like to hear others thoughts from what we have here ?

Also my research has found that CW was producing over 1,000 caps every single day till the fire bombings of Hamburg in '43. So it still seems very likely that the CW M40 was produced in mass as well...just have not seen one till now.

So lets here so more opinions on this one ?

thanks
Tim

Last edited by Tim O'Keefe; 10-17-2010 at 12:27 AM.
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Old 10-17-2010, 10:41 PM   #9
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I think it has some potential but we need a lot more detailed shots to confirm it one way or another. Im surprised that not another has surfaced though... I do hope its a good one and agree with Mark G that its not a converted side cap. Matt
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Old 10-18-2010, 02:59 AM   #10
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This one photo is pretty convincing...but then we only have one photo. The insignia, construction, materials, sewing all look killer...in this one photo. Hopefully this is not just its good side, but further photos will reveal all. So far so good, but please keep those photos coming, many members have weak hearts and may not be able to take the suspense.

I have a number of shots saved of good and bad Clemens Wagner stamps...so I'm prepared. Thanks very much for sharing.

Richard
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Old 10-18-2010, 04:49 AM   #11
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Tim,

I saw a quote from you in the thread on Ben's Luftwaffe Berolina Berlin cap.

"Clemens Wagner had at least three different stamps on tropical caps. The "standard" oval, the four line stamp and the one stamped with an oval that only lists Braunschweig on the lower line inside the oval."

Can you confirm which caps have these different stamps? As is the case with the cap which you have posted in this thread and the "known" tropical sidecaps by Clemens Wagner, they all have the first stamp which you have described. I would like to see examples of the other two stamps on "original" Heer tropical caps.
You mentioned in another thread that the 4 line Clemens Wagner stamp had been declared a fake many years ago. In tropical caps 'Yes' in pith helmets 'No'.

I respect your determination to try to prove that Clemens Wagner tropical billed M40 caps did exist but we have yet to see detailed pictures of one definitive example.

You have referred on occasion to old time collectors who do not accept these as being original, perhaps it is because they have seen so many reproductions made using Clemens Wagner stamps. I'm always very sceptical of any when seeing this maker and it usually leads to seeing many other issues with the caps. This includes the four line stamp, the single city with correct spelling, the single city with incorrect spelling and a large number twin city examples.

An interesting fact for you is that a small number of M40's were found with the hoard in the 70's or 80's, included in this were a few mint, soutached, 1942 dated caps by varying makers as well as some mint 1941 dated Robert Lubstein manufactured officer M40's.

I do look foward to seeing more pics of the cap posted in this thread and do like what I see so far.

Mark
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Old 10-18-2010, 05:48 AM   #12
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I would say that Ralph rarely if ever stumbles on DAK items..looks like a nice cap Tim..Billbert
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Clemens Wagner M40 dated March '42 for discussion ?
Old 10-18-2010, 03:26 PM   #13
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Default Clemens Wagner M40 dated March '42 for discussion ?

Juicy, very juicy!

Ralph know his stuff.

C.
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Old 10-18-2010, 10:53 PM   #14
Tim O'Keefe
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Hi Richard

Thanks alot for your thoughts. Am working on gettiing more photos. As for weak hearts, we all do when it comes to the DAK

Also look forwards to seeing your collection of all types of CW stamps. This is a study worth learning well.

With great appreciation,
Tim

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard P View Post
This one photo is pretty convincing...but then we only have one photo. The insignia, construction, materials, sewing all look killer...in this one photo. Hopefully this is not just its good side, but further photos will reveal all. So far so good, but please keep those photos coming, many members have weak hearts and may not be able to take the suspense.

I have a number of shots saved of good and bad Clemens Wagner stamps...so I'm prepared. Thanks very much for sharing.

Richard
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Old 10-18-2010, 10:59 PM   #15
Tim O'Keefe
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Hi Billbert & Christopher

Thanks for sharing your opinions on this cap, Agree Ralph knows his DAK better than most...He is always helpful to us collectors with detailed answers to enquirys and enjoys learning himself as well. Hopefully he will posting here again in the future.

Last edited by Tim O'Keefe; 10-18-2010 at 11:04 PM.
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