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Kriegsmarine dagger bought from craig gottlieb opinions.
Old 11-05-2019, 08:44 PM   #1
jimjim91607
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Default Kriegsmarine dagger bought from craig gottlieb opinions.

Dear Members,

I bought this Kriegsmarine dagger with hangers and knot on Craig Gottliebs auction a few months ago.

I just took the dagger out to look at it again and noticed that it does not have a release button on the cross guard ?

Could this dagger be a WW1 navy dagger with a WW2 pommel on top ?

The blade is plain and the WW1 daggers look the same but without the eagle on top ?

Were there any daggers made without the release button on the dagger ?

Any comments and advice are welcome.

Thanks Steven.
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Old 11-05-2019, 09:15 PM   #2
Serge M.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimjim91607 View Post
Dear Members,

I bought this Kriegsmarine dagger with hangers and knot on Craig Gottliebs auction a few months ago.
Steven,
Why did you do that ?
You been a WAF member since 2002 and you can't see what your bidding on, or is this a joke ?

I don't mean to be cruel or brutal, but this purchase by a long time collector does not compute for me, that's why I ask if your joking.

I will let other members give comments on your Navy 'rig'.

-Serge
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Old 11-06-2019, 01:33 AM   #3
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Dear Serge,

Good evening,

What do you mean by that ?

Whatever comments you may have, then please share them.

Please state your objections to this "rig " so we can learn from your VAST knowledge!

Regards Steven.
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Old 11-06-2019, 01:41 AM   #4
Schlange
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No one is perfect, and everyone can make the wrong decision.
IMO these is part dagger - late WKC Krigsmarine plain blade, early scabbard, and repro portepee.


Schlange

https://mojalbum.com/schlange88

https://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/for...d.php?t=916564
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Old 11-06-2019, 09:03 AM   #5
Billy G
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I'm not a Navy guy, per de, but I can see some issues with the dagger as it is. The blade's maker mark definitely lools 3R production but the scabbard predates the 3R. While it's true some daggers worn consistently may have had pommels upgraded, this one looks to be a mish mosh of parts.

Not sure about the portepee but it certainly could be a modern item.
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Old 11-06-2019, 09:21 AM   #6
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There should be a release button on the crossguard and simply because the lower part of the blade is equiped with such a device.

It is therefore at best a part dagger.
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Old 11-06-2019, 09:51 AM   #7
Serge M.
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I would immediately activate the ' Lifetime Fully Transferable Warranty' option on this rig, but that's just me and JMO.

-Serge
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Old 11-06-2019, 10:25 AM   #8
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Nothing wrong with this dagger, it is an early WKC M29 that has been updated to an M38 with the correct "replacement" eagle pommel, the lack of a release button is ok as this is also seen with these early pieces. The maker mark on the reverse is also ok for an early WKC. All textbook WKC parts. It is missing its thick leather buffer pad but no big deal. Shame about the condition of the grip but i like it.

Russ.
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Old 11-06-2019, 10:45 AM   #9
Chet Sowersby
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What I don't understand is why it took you so long to question and or notice this. What, that auction was like six months ago ?

Chet
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Old 11-06-2019, 12:24 PM   #10
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Dear Members,

Good morning !

Thank you for your comments.

Here is the original auction listing.

https://www.cgmauctions.com/detail.asp?id=8685


Complete Navy ensemble. Cream colored grip shows age and cracks. Plain fullered blade with push button lock in excellent condition. Scabbard shows period wear with some loss to gilding. Metal lion's head hanger buckles have lost most of their gilt finish, however the other fittings retain their finish. Aluminum portepee is present but is loosely wrapped. Overall a nice complete set.


As you can see in the photos, I could not see the release button because of the wrap of the portepee.

Chet in answer to your question ? I put all my collection in storage for safety the day after I received the 3 items from the Gottlieb auction, so I only looked at it briefly

I just went to the storage to retrieve some SS/SA/NSFK daggers and saw the Kriegsmarine dagger and so brought it home.

Bulldog/Russ, Thanks for your kind comments son !

This is why I put it on the site for comments, as I was not that thrilled with the dagger,the handle started to fall apart, but as it has a lifetime guarantee of authenticity I wanted your comments.

So the million dollar question, is it a keeper ?????

By the way here are a few of the SS/SA/NSKK daggers, there are more in storage.

Cheers Steven.
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Old 11-06-2019, 06:36 PM   #11
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Hi Steven,
As Russ stated, it is an original M29 dagger with a replacement pommel. On my photos you can see the same dagger(1) also with a replacement pommel. The WKC trademark on your dagger is a little later type and is identical as on M29 nr 2 on my photo. Note that a typical location for TM for WKC M1929 daggers is reverse of the blade, for comparison M1938 WKC TM on the obverse of the blade(3).
Is it a keeper? This one is for navy daggers -guys who are interested in early versions, different varieties etc.
I think you can upgrade it easily.

Regards
Jakub
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Old 11-07-2019, 06:14 AM   #12
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I know that they used to upgrade their M29 pommels during the Third Reich era but I don't understand why they would also change their crossguards. I'm no expert on these but when I first looked at the pictures, I asked myself a simple question, why is there no push button when the blade is equiped with such a device ? I'm a bit confused, have they kept the same M29 crossguard and simply added a new WKC blade or kept the original blade and changed xguards ? In any case, very interesting dagger for what it is.
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Old 11-07-2019, 09:53 AM   #13
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Hello Gentlemen,
here a pictures of my early WKC M1929 .
Best,
Oleg.
覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧
www.kriegsmarinedolch.de
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Old 11-07-2019, 11:56 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patrice View Post
I know that they used to upgrade their M29 pommels during the Third Reich era but I don't understand why they would also change their crossguards. I'm no expert on these but when I first looked at the pictures, I asked myself a simple question, why is there no push button when the blade is equiped with such a device ? I'm a bit confused, have they kept the same M29 crossguard and simply added a new WKC blade or kept the original blade and changed xguards ? In any case, very interesting dagger for what it is.
Hi Patrice,
The crossguards without a push buton was simply a cost reduction in difficult economic times after the war. They changed the angle on the hook so that it worked both ways. I marked it in my photos.

Regards
Jakub
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Old 11-07-2019, 12:14 PM   #15
Dr.Vet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebig View Post
Hello Gentlemen,
here a pictures of my early WKC M1929 .
Best,
Oleg.
覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧
www.kriegsmarinedolch.de
Hi Oleg,
Thanks to your photos we can observe evolution of WKC trademark in Reichsmarine period. TM on your dagger is between high neck imperial TM( nr 1 on my photos) and knight's head with WKC letters (nr 2).
Thanks for sharing.

Regards
Jakub
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