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Eric-Jan Bakker Wehrpass and Soldbuch Forum Documents and IDs the Wehrmacht.

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Old 06-18-2019, 04:16 PM   #31
Willi Z.
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So, what's the verdict on this grouping?
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Old 07-01-2019, 04:29 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Willi Z. View Post
So, what's the verdict on this grouping?
I now believe the entire group is a well done forgery - The Soldbuch is almost convincing since some of the entries and signatures correspond with known original exemplars.
Scary, seeing this stuff makes me think twice posting certain Soldbuch pages on an open forum.

The accompanying documents do not stand up to closer scrutiny.
Here is one example:
The Erdkampfabzeichen award is dated April 20, 1945 and carries Major Gerhard Schacht's signature. On this day Schacht was nowhere near FJR25 nor was he still the Regiments-Kommandeur . - Four days earlier on April 16, Major Schacht was wounded during the first day of the Russian attack on the Küstrin bridgehead. The same day Schacht was evacuated to a hospital in Berlin and Hauptmann Hermann Kürschen took over as commanding officer of FJR25.
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Old 07-01-2019, 08:13 PM   #33
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Naxos, an insightful breakdown of that group and research.

Would just piggy back by adding that the Lufwaffe Panzerkampf Abzeichen is in the same realm of other late war badges such as the Luftwaffe CCC, and Seekampf Abzeichen der Luftwaffe. Outside of questionable entries in passbooks, and provisional field award docs that’s it. No formal docs. Photographic evidence of such badges in wear are also non-existent, but as expected that did not stop the fakers. You might remember about 20+ years ago a photo of a Luftwaffe helmsman wearing a Seekampf Abzeichen der Luftwaffe that surfaced at militaria shows. Lo and behold the same pic was found to have been taken from page 218 of Bender’s Military Medals and Badges of the Third Reich book sans without the badge. It was photo shopped. As you know salting groups with forged docs, or replacing those missing to increase a groups value is not new. Now though it it could be taking an original basic group of docs, or building a group from scratch as Willi pointed out with a completely false service narrative.
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Old 07-02-2019, 05:44 PM   #34
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The effort expended to make this grouping look as authentic as it is, is rather disconcerting. I guess this is really nothing new for extremely high dollar documents.

I once had more than 100 FJ documents. I moved them along for several reasons, after making copies of them for my files.

Like most of the fake militaria, it is the contrived aging that is the first indicator to me.
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Old 07-11-2019, 10:20 PM   #35
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I know I could make this easy on me (us) and just let it rest, my apologies - but I like to learn the truth.

This group vexes me much. It has such good, well researched details and yet some seemingly obvious flaws.

Well, here it is:

If the stamp on the Soldbuch photo is real are so the others? What do you say?


BTW: the obituary is real
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File Type: jpg _____20190604_082424.jpg (132.5 KB, 92 views)

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Old 07-11-2019, 11:36 PM   #36
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Hardy, that’s great investigative work turning up the obituary. For me that pretty much settles the question of the Soldbuch belonging to a Josef Merx who served in the Luftwaffe. Forgers though are more than capable of adding a fake service narrative with further entries, to include signatures along with the correct stampings. The Fj service and award entries will require further research to confirm. The Soldbuch was never the main issue though that I had with this group. The formal Luftwaffekampfabazeichen award citation is. Based on what is actually known about such late-war formal documents that in itself should be a red flag...along with the seller. Again kudos for turning up the obit.
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Old 07-11-2019, 11:41 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward View Post
.. For me that pretty much settles the question of the Soldbuch belonging to a Josef Merx who served in the Luftwaffe. Forgers though are more than capable of adding a fake service narrative with further entries, to include signatures along with the correct stampings. The Fj service and award entries will require further research to confirm. The Soldbuch was never the main issue though that I had with this group. The formal Luftwaffekampfabazeichen award citation is. Based on what is actually known about such late-war formal documents that in itself should be a red flag...along with the seller. Again kudos for turning up the obit.
Agree, with all you've said!
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Old 07-13-2019, 07:17 AM   #38
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If you've the money, the best way to confirm more is to check if there are EK awardslists in the Bundesarchiv for his unit (or the unit it was subordinated too at that time) and cross reference.
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Old 07-13-2019, 07:10 PM   #39
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Hello !

I think this is a very interesting (and also disturbing) topic and I also think it is very difficult to find
the right way to discuss it (i.e., not to help the fakers).
Nevertheless, I have the same attitude as naxos, and would also be interested, whether it is possible to say,
which parts of this group are legit and which are fakes/added entries etc. ...

1.) As has been explained in excellent detail by Brian R (and others), I don't think that any of those award docs are real
(maybe except the Fallschirmschtz.-Abz) and I think this probably needs no further discussion.
(There are additional arguments, that support that view.)

2.) there remains the Soldbuch (Ersatzausfertigung/2nd issue) and

3.) 3 additional paper docs :
- Nahkampftageliste,
- the doc signed by Maj. Schacht confirming the EK 1 and
- the POW doc.
I think the POW dismissal doc is real and confirms that he finally was promoted to Uffz./Objg.
The EK 1 approval had been proofed as fake by naxos already, as Maj. Schacht was not there, when it was issued.
Therefore, from the paper docs, there remains to be discussed the list of Nahkampf/Sturmtage (and then there is the Soldbuch.).

What caused me some real headache is, that the Soldbuch itself looks to me original (and this is somehow confimed by naxos,
finding the obituary of Josef Merx).
And in addition to that : If the Soldbuch is an original, all the stamps in it look the same to me !
(And the stamp on the list of Nahkampftage as well).
=> That would make somehow the p. 10 entries "original" as well.
So, the first question I asked myself (perhaps similar to what naxos asked) :
are all entries in this Soldbuch and confirmed with this stamp correct (and "only" the award docs added ?!)
Or is it possible nowadays, to reproduce such a stamp almost identical ? I think this is a question of general interest .

As I cannot judge those stamps by experience, there remain a few questions, that could help to clarify these questions :
Regarding the SB entries, one could look at them from the viewpoint of an "advocatus diaboli" (everything important is wrong/fake).
But even if you take the opposite approach : "advocatus benevolant" (everything is correct), there remain some questions for me :
1.) Most important :
a.) Why to take out p. 10 ?
b.) and why replace it with a list of awards ?
What should have been written there before, that should not be revealed to the enemy ?
From the book by Jeff Young, I learned that sometimes this page has security checks. But as the SB seems to be issued in Feb. 1945
and as there is such an entry on p. 11, this cannot be the reason.
Or is it just a clever way to enter all those awards on one page at the same time, while entries on p. 22/21 would need much more "effort") ?!

2.) The second question is related to the list of Nahkampftage/Sturmtage :
Shouldn't those be mentioned individually (as either one of those or both ?!) Or does is it just happen that all 30 count for both ?
In connecton to this list :
When the Soldbuch was handled in February 1945 :
a) How likely is it, that all that information was available at that time (It must be two totally different units ...)
b) But even if so, why wasn't he awarded the NKS I. Stufe immediately in February, but only on 20.4.44 ?

3.) The third question refers to the use of regimental FPN 60908 stamp on that award list for p. 10 :
Why would that stamp of the regimental HQ be used, but all entries confirmed by a Kp. Führer ?
Shouldn't there be a Btl. level stamp ?

4.) What could be the reason to blackout the unit entries on p.2-4 ?

There are much more points that could be discussed. But the problem with this SB is for me, that everything is almost borderline :
You could construct explanations in either way.
I checked the Nahkampfliste and there is no simple way to say "this unit was there" but the Nahkampfliste says something different.
So it is either very cleverly done or maybe it is simply true and just because someone produced some fake award docs for this group,
the whole thing is misjudged ...

Hope this gives some useful points to discuss,
best regards,

Archi

P.S. : I tried to compile a signature comparison of the Lt. Who signed in the SB and on the Nahkampftageliste.
Are this signatures from the same person ? To hard for me to decide ...
.
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Old 07-13-2019, 08:18 PM   #40
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The added page 10? ("wurde heute vernichtet" without giving the date is more than unusual)

Analyzing the defaced entries my help further - I think they can be deciphered with better scans

Why no date and Stammrolle number?
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File Type: jpg _____20190604_082500.jpg (31.1 KB, 52 views)

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Old 07-13-2019, 08:55 PM   #41
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Fsch.Jg.Rgt.zbV Schacht

1. May 1945 - 5./Wachbataillon OKW - see: https://www.deutsche-digitale-biblio...PVH75PJF7GXXHU
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Old 07-14-2019, 06:41 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PanzerElite View Post
4

Is there ink of the stamp on top of the staple?
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Old 07-14-2019, 07:20 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archi View Post
Hello !


Or is it possible nowadays, to reproduce such a stamp almost identical ? I think this is a question of general interest .

...
.
That is a simple thing to do - you just need a printer, a sheet of acetate and an example image of the required stamp.

Put the stamp image in to a photo editing programme (photoshop for example), reverse the image and then print it on to a sheet of acetate. Then while the ink is still wet you carefully press it down on whatever it is you are faking, be that an award citation or a forged entry in a Soldbuch.
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Old 07-14-2019, 08:29 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hucks216 View Post
That is a simple thing to do - you just need a printer, a sheet of acetate and an example image of the required stamp.

Put the stamp image in to a photo editing programme (photoshop for example), reverse the image and then print it on to a sheet of acetate. Then while the ink is still wet you carefully press it down on whatever it is you are faking, be that an award citation or a forged entry in a Soldbuch.
Kev, no harm intented, although it's easy to do and to find likely; giving such tips here may help beginners or so whose intent might be to fool others.
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Old 07-14-2019, 08:59 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HouweTrouwe View Post
Kev, no harm intented, although it's easy to do and to find likely; giving such tips here may help beginners or so whose intent might be to fool others.
It is a method that has been in use for years, the fakers already know and have known for a long time and even if some didn't it wouldn't take much thought to come up with it.
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