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Zubehörkasten fur 2cm Kwk
Old 11-11-2019, 03:44 PM   #1
johann mor
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Default Zubehörkasten fur 2cm Kwk

Evening All,

Has anyone got a Zubehörkasten fur 2cm Kwk 30 or a MG Werkzeugtasche as shown in the attached picture. It's for my panzer ll recreation, so I could do with pictures dimensions or any relevant information.

Thanks in advance,

Jon
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Last edited by johann mor; 11-11-2019 at 04:52 PM.
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Old 11-11-2019, 05:48 PM   #2
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Some MG Werzeug boxes like these? or are they MG Werkzeug tasche? I mean, metal boxes or leather ones?


Carles
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Old 11-12-2019, 05:06 AM   #3
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Thanks for the reply Carles, I was hoping that, with your experience in these matters, you might be able to help.

The 2cm box on the right, looks like it is a steel box, as per your steel MG34 boxes but bigger. The MG34 pouch looks like it is made of leather but it looks nothing like a normal MG gunners pouch. I suspect that the standard pouch would have been used instead of a specialised panzer version but you never know and that's why I asked the question. If the consensus is that it would have been the standard version, then I already have one, otherwise I will have to leave that item until I can find details of the original.

Jon
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Old 11-12-2019, 02:21 PM   #4
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Presumption on my part Johan as the box is marked up for the flak 38 but must be along these lines.

Box contains cleaning tool for the breech, hammer, pry bar, split case extractor, stuck case extractor and an unknown piece of kit in the leather pouch.

I cant tell on your pictures if the box is fixed or portable, the one posted is obviously transportable. All of the kit listed above would make sense to be close to hand to keep the weapon in action.

One for sale on UK epay as we speak.

Hope this helps a bit
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File Type: jpg tool box 1 flak.jpg (23.5 KB, 202 views)
File Type: jpg tool box 4 flak.jpg (54.8 KB, 199 views)

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Old 11-12-2019, 02:29 PM   #5
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Ground dug case extractor on a well know relics ground dug site. Presumably locates in the top left of the base as per shadow board.
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File Type: jpg case extractor ground dug 2.jpg (103.8 KB, 202 views)
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Old 11-12-2019, 06:41 PM   #6
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Here is a simular box

https://www.ebay.de/itm/pzkpf-wagen-...MAAOSw6-5dyZP~
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Old 11-12-2019, 07:28 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johann mor View Post
Thanks for the reply Carles, I was hoping that, with your experience in these matters, you might be able to help.

The 2cm box on the right, looks like it is a steel box, as per your steel MG34 boxes but bigger. The MG34 pouch looks like it is made of leather but it looks nothing like a normal MG gunners pouch. I suspect that the standard pouch would have been used instead of a specialised panzer version but you never know and that's why I asked the question. If the consensus is that it would have been the standard version, then I already have one, otherwise I will have to leave that item until I can find details of the original.

Jon
Sorry for this long text,

There is a matter that's been going around my mind from time to time for some years... and it's: What tool box did MG gunner's have in early tanks? About 1938-9, as Panzermantel MG34 became standard in most tanks, the "MG Werkzeug" box for MG 34 also became standard. I've got a quite early variation that doesn't have the booster cone wooden fitting, seems it had a round oiler but not held by the semi-circular metal fitting but by a block of wood, and painted ordnance blue, of course. So what before these?

Now, I've always thought standard leather gunner pouches with the long strap (only used with MG13) would have been for vehicles and mounted personnel, but I have no proof of that. Many people don't know that this small square gunner pouch was not the first model used with MG 13, but a larger one. Please see the following pics of the early MG13 leather gunner pouch and see if it might fit that of your manual. I'm also posting a couple of the early MG Werkzeug box I mentione, prior to it being completed.

You can see the MG long strap pouch here:

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=491935

Carles
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File Type: jpg meggy1.jpg (56.4 KB, 200 views)
File Type: jpg meggy3.jpg (72.9 KB, 201 views)
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Old 11-13-2019, 04:44 AM   #8
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Thanks for your thought Carles, don't apologise I find it all incredibly interesting, I have a Long strap MG13 pouch in my collection.

It's strange but even though I thought that I had photographed every item in my collection, I continually find items that I have missed, I digress.

I do wonder if the images of items in the Beladeplan are generic and maybe don't actually depict the final item that was used, so I wouldn't put too much emphasis on the picture accuracy. However the pouch in the picture appears to have 2 closure buckles and I estimate that it is approximately 150mm x 200mm in size.

Jon
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Old 11-13-2019, 07:25 AM   #9
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I know that this is post war but maybe something like this?
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Old 11-13-2019, 11:42 AM   #10
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Another model of Werkzeugtasche I know is that used for MG08 and 08/15 but it doesn't seem to fit in the style of that in the pic. There is another case (see pics #2, 3 and 4) used for tools but, even when it is nearer to "your's" , I believe it wouldn't have been used for MGs...

Carles
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File Type: jpg 28108344_12262145.jpg (61.1 KB, 190 views)
File Type: jpg 3393_3.jpg (98.6 KB, 188 views)
File Type: jpg 3671_3.jpg (102.1 KB, 183 views)
File Type: jpg 40c0_3.jpg (26.9 KB, 185 views)
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Old 11-13-2019, 05:32 PM   #11
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Carles,

Looking at those pouches the lower one seems to be the nearest to that depicted on the Beladeplan image.

it would appear that the 2cm box and the MG pouch would have been permanently attached to the structure rather than removable items. The attached pictures are from the Ausf F in the Bovington Tank Museum, the mounting points circled in red are for the MG pouch and the ones circled in green are for the 2 cm box. If you look carefully at the fixing for the 2cm box you can see that steel angle runs vertically between the upper and lower fixing bosses and that there are 2 horizontal screws in each vertical steel angle, one would have thought, that these screws attached the box to the steel angle.

Jon

Last edited by johann mor; 11-13-2019 at 05:36 PM. Reason: picutes wouldn't attach. AGAIN!!
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Old 11-15-2019, 04:59 AM   #12
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Just found this on the net, I am guessing that it's an early Panzer lll, it gives a much clearer picture of the MG Werkeugtasche, item e. In a later version, a metal case bolted to the back of the radio operators seat.

Jon
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File Type: jpg PT3-1_3-458x600.jpg (63.9 KB, 137 views)
File Type: jpg PT3-1_3-458x600 (2).jpg (71.3 KB, 135 views)
File Type: png Screenshot (47).png (84.0 KB, 151 views)

Last edited by johann mor; 11-15-2019 at 05:07 AM. Reason: added content
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Old 11-15-2019, 05:08 AM   #13
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I can't get the picture to load
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Last edited by johann mor; 11-15-2019 at 05:36 AM.
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Old 11-15-2019, 06:27 AM   #14
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Lets try again!
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Old 11-15-2019, 03:07 PM   #15
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That leather bag looks uncommonly like the leather pioneer bag used by the germans although the pioneer one has an additional pocket on the front under the flap and has a carry strap.


Pictures on the web to view and probably on the forum somewhere.

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