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Old 09-04-2018, 10:06 AM   #376
Collectinsteve
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Very nice! These are still very difficult to find, but I've seen more of them in the past few years than any time before. Maybe a batch of them was discovered in a dark warehouse within the last few years?

These trousers are part of what I call the "transitional" uniform that came between KAZ57 and KAZ59. This goes along with the parka that has snaps (like KAZ57) but no collar (like KAZ59). There's many other differences, but those are the easiest to see. For the most part the dates on both items is 1959, however I have seen a few pieces that are dated 1958. I've never seen one dated 1960 that I can recall.

Now, the interesting thing about the magazine cover above is that it doesn't show these trousers Look at the snaps. All of the "transitional" trousers and parkas have the male side attached to the snap head. That is opposite of the KAZ57 items and pretty much everything that has snaps in both the military and civilian world before and since this time frame. The snaps in the magazine cover are the standard way with the female side with the snap head.

To me this indicates that true KAZ57 trousers with standard snaps exists even though I've never seen one.

What complicates things is the very small timeframe between KAZ57, transitional, and KAZ59. Pictures of soldiers wearing KAZ57 parkas and camouflage trousers could be a mix of all three types. Or just two. Or perhaps only one! Unfortunately pictures are generally not clear enough to show small details which could answer these questions. After all, the purpose of camouflage is to camouflage

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Old 09-05-2018, 12:05 PM   #377
Bernhard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Collectinsteve View Post
Very nice! These are still very difficult to find, but I've seen more of them in the past few years than any time before. Maybe a batch of them was discovered in a dark warehouse within the last few years?

These trousers are part of what I call the "transitional" uniform that came between KAZ57 and KAZ59. This goes along with the parka that has snaps (like KAZ57) but no collar (like KAZ59). There's many other differences, but those are the easiest to see. For the most part the dates on both items is 1959, however I have seen a few pieces that are dated 1958. I've never seen one dated 1960 that I can recall.

Now, the interesting thing about the magazine cover above is that it doesn't show these trousers Look at the snaps. All of the "transitional" trousers and parkas have the male side attached to the snap head. That is opposite of the KAZ57 items and pretty much everything that has snaps in both the military and civilian world before and since this time frame. The snaps in the magazine cover are the standard way with the female side with the snap head.

To me this indicates that true KAZ57 trousers with standard snaps exists even though I've never seen one.

What complicates things is the very small timeframe between KAZ57, transitional, and KAZ59. Pictures of soldiers wearing KAZ57 parkas and camouflage trousers could be a mix of all three types. Or just two. Or perhaps only one! Unfortunately pictures are generally not clear enough to show small details which could answer these questions. After all, the purpose of camouflage is to camouflage

Steve

Thank you very much Steve for pointing me in the right direction.
I was so pleased to find this pants and really thought they are of the first type.
So the search goes on ...

I have added two pics for additional Information ;
First the opened flap exposing the male and female part of the snap on my Pants , second a photo of my dad wearing the first type of trousers clearly visible the male part of the snap being on the trousers.


Thanks again for sharing your Expertise !


Regards


Bernhard
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Old 09-06-2018, 05:58 AM   #378
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I'm glad I can put this obscure knowledge to good use, so I thank you

I am not 100% sure that KAZ57 infantry type trousers exist. I've never seen one in a collection and the picture you posted of the magazine cover is the only direct evidence that hints that it exists. Even Urrsik does not have a drawing of KAZ57 trousers in his book. However, I think it is probable that one exists.

What does exist for KAZ57, for sure, is the Panzerhose. Gene T and I both have examples in our collection. The snaps are normal and it has zippers on the leg pockets. Given that your father was a tanker it is probable that is what he is wearing. So there is some hope you will find one, eventually!

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unknown type of kampfanzug trousers
Old 10-15-2018, 08:06 AM   #379
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Default unknown type of kampfanzug trousers

My fellow collectors ,


Here I want to show a quite interresting Tarnhose.
It is a - for me at least -- completely unknown variant of the
trousers for the kampfanzug.


The garment is in completely unworn and never never been cleaned condition.
As you can see it has a very crisp HBA 1960 acceptance stamp and a fairly
good maker´s mark.


The pants differ in two ways from what you would expect from a 1960 pair :


The belt loops for both the trouser type belt and for the wider leather belt.
Also note the drawstring.


The second thing is that the legs are of a very wide cut as you will find on a boot cut pair of jeans.


Could be something like a trial pair of trousers.
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HBA stamp and makers´mark
Old 10-15-2018, 08:09 AM   #380
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Default HBA stamp and makers´mark

Here we have the HBA stamp and the maker´s stamp.
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Old 10-16-2018, 08:55 AM   #381
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An incredible find! I completely agree that you found yourself a trials piece! Further, I think this is a survivor of very high level trials where manufacturers presented alternatives to select from. Maybe it never even went out to soldiers at all, but instead was rejected before more were made.

The "boot cut" is an interesting feature. The trousers were always designed to be worn over the quilted linings and Arbeitsanzug, so it makes sense they experimented with this design. I suspect they did not adopt it because it was impractical to pull the trousers on if the boots were already on the feet with or without the "boot cut". After the trousers were on the "boot cut" probably was too lose around the ankles. Therefore, why bother?

Congratulations!

Steve
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Old 10-18-2018, 06:37 AM   #382
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Thank you very much Steve !
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Old 10-28-2019, 03:11 PM   #383
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So I guess I just found one of that transitional type too?
I actually was looking for KAZ59 trousers, but were these also in regular use with the KAZ59 jacket? If so, I can just hang this on the mannequin with it.



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Old 11-23-2019, 12:07 PM   #384
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Great find Michael !
Today I had the chance to take pics of another one of this model.
Unfortunately not mine !
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Old 11-23-2019, 12:14 PM   #385
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A very nice example with vibrant colors , nicely maker marked
and dated 1958.
The FD stamp is believed to mark clothing that were to be used for training purposes.
Feind Darsteller = enemy player .
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Old 11-24-2019, 02:06 AM   #386
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michelwijnand View Post
So I guess I just found one of that transitional type too?
I actually was looking for KAZ59 trousers, but were these also in regular use with the KAZ59 jacket? If so, I can just hang this on the mannequin with it.
For sure all these pieces were mixed together at least through the early 1960s. Older jackets were modified to have shoulder epaulets for rank like KAZ59 and I think the trousers were used "as is".

KAZ59 trousers aren't that hard to find. They come up for sale very regularly, though often in bad condition. There's a pretty good one on German eBay right now.

Steve
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Old 11-24-2019, 02:08 AM   #387
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernhard View Post
A very nice example with vibrant colors , nicely maker marked
and dated 1958.
The FD stamp is believed to mark clothing that were to be used for training purposes.
Feind Darsteller = enemy player .
Interesting that they would bother putting a stamp for FD! I thought the BH only started using them for a simulated enemy force after the regular army stopped using them. Well, maybe they had to give someone a job to do and having him stamp "FD" all day was the only thing they could find for him

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