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Daggers and Edged Weapons Forum This is the corner of the site where you can talk about daggers, bayonets, swords and knifes of the Wehrmacht and related organizations.

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Old 02-24-2019, 11:48 AM   #31
krikke1980
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12.
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Old 02-24-2019, 11:49 AM   #32
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13. Last ones.
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Old 02-24-2019, 11:55 AM   #33
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It defenately looks like a early SA dagger, fitting of eagle is not specially bad in my opinion. The nail on the eagle is also not unusual on theese earliest SA daggers.
Is not cheap beech wood, the crack is exately where you want to see it.
BUT when that said, for the Röhm widmung there where ordered around 100.000 new pcs for the SA people who where members before 1931, SS was under the SA until 1934 so this applied for those members too.
Has anyone ever seen a dagger like this (SA) with the SS rune enamel button and a old style SS dedication ? I have not.
..... or has anyone ever seen a old style SA dagger with the Röhm dedication ?
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Old 02-24-2019, 12:06 PM   #34
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This is the third one that I have seen and all three have similar characteristics, such as the placement of both inscriptions way towards the bottom.

I haven't compared the Rohm inscription but I mentioned awhile back, the prototype inscriptions may be slightly different than the M33.

There are other signs which I won't disclose to confirm authenticity but so far, it is looking pretty good.
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Old 02-24-2019, 12:12 PM   #35
Larry C
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Earliest of Pack Rohms have the producer logo in the standard position compared to later Rohm examples closer to the lower guard.
As seen with many other early SA and SS producers of Rohm daggers.

Why did the logo move so early prior to the standard SA Rohm production types ?
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Old 02-24-2019, 12:23 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krikke1980 View Post
Okay people, these are my 50-cents...

Imo this dagger has a very big chance to be the real deal.

First of all these daggers were made by only two producers. Eickhorn and E.P. & S.
This is the one and only SS Christmas dagger is saw. The others are all SA daggers but were made the same way.
Pack was known to use a nail to attach the eagle. Eickhorn did not use a nail.

Most collectors call these daggers 'prototypes' but I don't think this name is correct as they were eventually given to their recepients which make them 'accepted' examples.

The overall appearance of this dagger has all the Pack features imo.
Discolourized grip which is often see on later SS daggers made by Pack.
The SS roundel is also of the type that is mostly used by Pack.

The cruedly fitting of this eagly can been explaned aswell imo.
These eagle were placed in a handcarved hole in the grip.
I can only imagine how difficult it would be to make a perfect hole and fit of these eagles. As they were all done by hand, there could not be two exactly the same gripeagle fittings. One would be done better and the other will be done worse.
I also think this would have been the reason to use another eagle later on, that would be easier to fit and attach as they innovated their daggers aswell.

The fitting of the grip/quards is very well executed.

Overall, the dagger has that 'nicotine'-patinated appearance.

I would not condamn this piece right away and do further research as it has a very good chance to be a genuine example.

Very well said.This was my thoughts too.


Our knowledge is,and i think this is accepted in the colector-world,that pack was one maker who did make the first SA,or-prototype daggers.Then it's obvious that they did the same with SS-daggers!That this type eagle are period happened,is seen on a few period photos.


When the Röhm-inscription is correct,then the same with the whole dagger !

Last edited by tobau; 02-24-2019 at 12:33 PM.
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Old 02-24-2019, 12:31 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry C View Post
Earliest of Pack Rohms have the producer logo in the standard position compared to later Rohm examples closer to the lower guard.
As seen with many other early SA and SS producers of Rohm daggers.

Why did the logo move so early prior to the standard SA Rohm production types ?

I have had an early eickhorn SA-Röhm dagger (grinded Name) directly from the family. The blade would have the BIG double-oval and was very far from the crossguard.
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Old 02-24-2019, 12:35 PM   #38
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This Rohm inscription is not the usual Pack but since this is a prototype, who knows, maybe this particular inscription was made prior to the more commonly seen example ? The inscription is very well made and there are no obvious red flags other that it does not ressemble the '' classic textbook '' Pack. Nonetheless, an extremely interesting dagger that would need a hand inspection by some of the experts.
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Old 02-24-2019, 12:54 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by patrice View Post
This Rohm inscription is not the usual Pack but since this is a prototype, who knows, maybe this particular inscription was made prior to the more commonly seen example ? The inscription is very well made and there are no obvious red flags other that it does not ressemble the '' classic textbook '' Pack. Nonetheless, an extremely interesting dagger that would need a hand inspection by some of the experts.
I totally agree but offcourse the 'Meine Ehre Heißt Treue'-inscription has a totally other early font to.
Imo we cannot compare these daggers inscriptions with their later cousines M33's.
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Old 02-24-2019, 01:06 PM   #40
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I can't even tell if the motto is correct or not, I have never seen such an example before. Perhaps, it would be best to first authenticate the motto and then go on with further analysis ?
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Old 02-24-2019, 01:10 PM   #41
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I honestly have no idea or experience with these either but. What is the scabbard made of? It looks like it has some rust? What color is it where the finish is missing?
Thanks!
Bob
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Old 02-24-2019, 01:15 PM   #42
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I honestly have no idea or experience with these either but. What is the scabbard made of? It looks like it has some rust? What color is it where the finish is missing?
Thanks!
Bob
Scabbard looks like blued steel to me. For sure an interesting dagger!


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Old 02-24-2019, 01:22 PM   #43
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Quote:
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I honestly have no idea or experience with these either but. What is the scabbard made of? It looks like it has some rust? What color is it where the finish is missing?
Thanks!
Bob
I heared that the scabbards of these earliest daggers were made of copper before they started to make them from steel.
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Old 02-24-2019, 01:23 PM   #44
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Interesting dagger. I dont like eagle. Maybe someone know this eagle from badges or awards? Logo placesed in standart place for Pack Crhistmas dagger.
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Old 02-24-2019, 01:44 PM   #45
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The big 4 or 5 that have seen it all will know, but will they tell you the truth, that is the question.
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