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Political Organizations All aspects of Third Reich Political Organizations, including the SA, NSDAP, NSKK, NSFK, HJ, DAF, NSKOV, etc.

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Old 05-17-2009, 08:52 AM   #16
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MY FINGERS RECOVERED AND I HAVE TIME BEFORE THE GIRO D,ITALIA STAGE 9 ON EUROSPORT

SEAN - WAS THERE ANY FALLOUT FROM THE INCIDENT WITH THE GAU LEADERS?

Georg - Sure, we lost 2 Scharfuhrers who were expelled and a Truppfuhrer reduced to an SA mann, he had this as a choice or be expelled. Being expelled wasnt good for your outside job prospects. None regretted our actions, we had enough of these people talking down to us like we were stupid, if they wanted a fight they were looking at the right people. Rohm knew of this incident, we were told he approved but this was not to be spread around to outsiders, this made us happy Rohm approved of our reaction to these party men. We from then on damaged Gau leaders vehicles whenever we had chance and a few swift punches to any party men we saw.

SEAN - DID YOU JOIN THE PARTY?

Georg - i never did, i wore the party badge on my tie like most men but i never joined, i had better things to do with my money then pay Party dues so they could drive about in nice cars whilst i took the tram.

SEAN - WAS THIS NEVER QUESTIONED?

Georg - Yes sure, but most SA said the same "my loyalty to Hitler has been proved many times in many Bierhalls", it was left at that really.

SEAN - DID YOU EVER MEET HORST WESSEL?

Georg - No, he had died before i had got involved in the SA, wasnt it 1930?
We went to his grave every anniversary for the parade, Sturm 5 always did his guard of honour.
Let me tell you Wessel was no pimp and the prostitiute stories where instigated by the left and post war historians, he was a true fighter, so many stories of his bravery were told by the men who knew not these so called historians, were they there? never!
Ill tell you a story i was told by members of Sturm 5, they attended a lokal near to Tempelhof(South Berlin) with only 20 or so SA men they approached the Red lokal, Wessel marched through the door, as he stood at the entrance he was faced with a lokal full of Reds, his SA men held back but Wessel stood firm and shouted "YOUR JOURNEY TO A RED REPUBLIC IS THROUGH ME!", all hell broke, bottles chairs and fists, he never took one step back, never. His Sturm idolised him for his bravery.

SEAN - HOW WAS YOUR FIGHTING SKILLS?

Georg - mine? oh poor but i was fit and could swing a punch ok, i was short sighted and wore glasses mostly until i entered opposing venues, im sure i punched as many SA men as Reds(laughs), you havent time to check who the other guy is in the thick of it.

SEAN - DID YOU HAVE OUTSIDE INTERESTS AWAY FROM THE SA?

Georg - Yes i loved motorcycles and of course girls, i met my wife Margarete in 1933, once i had money for a motorcycle i bought a sidecar also and we would ride into the Grunewald in the summer, never in SA uniform as i didnt want her involved in any fighting if we came across Reds, some Reds had no respect for women, cowards.

SEAN - DID YOU USE THE BIKE FOR SA REASONS?

Georg - Oh sure id be given petrol coupons, of course i used some of this petrol for my own uses, i would ride all over Berlin delivering despatches and orders, i once delivered Hitler an invite to an SA function, i saw him standing in the open doorway talking to a party man when i delivered it, i gave it to one of his bodyguards, he was a brute of an SS man, i was only 5,7 in height, he was a giant to me, i was so happy id seen him so close up and bored everyone including my girlfriend with this story, am i boring you with it too?(smiles).

SEAN - DID YOU GET INVOLVED IN ANY OF THE NOTORIOUS AD-HOC SA CAMPS SUCH AS COLUMBIAHAUS?

Georg - These places were manned by SA men who became auxillary police, mainly bullyboys, it left a sour taste in my mouth that the SA was involved in these things, terrible simply terrible, this was not what we had fought for, i knew men who were in these places, i preferred not to hear or listen to any stories of brutality, im sorry that is all i have to say about these things.

SEAN - THATS FINE, THOUGH I MUST ASK YOU ABOUT ANTI SEMITISM

Georg - Sure i understand its ok

SEAN - WHERE THE SA ANTI SEMITIC AS HISTORY SUGGESTS AND WHAT WERE YOU FEELINGS ON THIS ISSUE?

Georg - Anti semitism wasnt just an SA thing, the Redfront had this too, anti semitism was rife in Germany and Europe before we came to power. The jews were so far down the list for us, we fought to regain Germanys power in Europe, to rid ourselves of the versailles treaty, the Jews? totally irrelavant to us, it was only after 1933 that it seemed to become Party policy against the jews, this was pushed heavily by the Party big wigs rather then the SA, though we had anti semites in our ranks, it sounds strange but i cannot recall us ever making a point against the jews before 33, we certainly never went and damaged synagogues, it certainly happened later in the 30s closer to krystallnacht.

SEAN - WHAT ABOUT THE BYCOTT OF JEWISH SHOPS IN 1933?

Georg - Sure, we had to stand outside jewish shops, people spoke to us and ignored us generally, in fact the shop we stood outside gave us coffee, the owner said we actually attracted more people to enter as they saw it as an act of defiance to us, it was very lighthearted really, not always the aggressive history version, i bought a loaf of bread at the end of the day and took it home, the owner gave me a discount as well, what a strange day, (DONT BUY FROM JEWS, UNLESS YOUR AN SA MAN WHO NEEDS TO TAKE A LOAF HOME TO YOUR MOTHER) crazy really..i never involved myself in any further acts against jews, so silly i had jewish friends.

SEAN - DID YOU THINK WHAT WAS TO COME IN REGARD TO THE CONCENTRATION/DEATH CAMPS WAS POSSIBLE WHEN YOU CAME TO POWER IN 1933?

Georg - Never, this is a stain on Germany and it people.
Why this happened to these poor people will stay with me until i die, they were as German as any of us, i have a collective and personal guilt towards the Jews and other people we murdered and pressed into poverty and despair, im ashamed my actions in the early 30s made this possible, we should have got rid of Hitler and Rohm taken power, a true revolution for the people, im sure no World War would have happened if we,d done away with that rabble at the top, maniacs.

SEAN - THE NIGHT OF LONG KNIVES, WHAT WAS YOUR FEELINGS?

Georg - I was stunned, totally, i didnt beleive any of it, the papers were lies, total lies. We had been given "leave" a whole month, it was very strange, a whole month? why so long we asked. I suppose we were so niave, who would of thought it, Rohm murdered, look we all knew he as a homosexual, it was unwritten but known, so? we would say more homosexuals means more girls for us real men(smiles)
But that day was the end for us SA men, we knew the SS was ruling the roost from now on, bastards, all of them and this was shown in the KZ(camps) in the war, they took theyre chance and smiled as they pulled those triggers..

OKAY GUYS ILL FINISH THE LAST CHAPTER TONIGHT, IM OFF TO WATCH THE GIRO, ILL POST Georgs SA file photo tonight also(he has said this is ok), a face to a name for you, Sean

Last edited by luftwaffe blue; 05-17-2009 at 08:59 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 05-17-2009, 10:04 AM   #17
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i wish there was an entire book of stories and memories by the men who were there, and not some revisionists interpretations..
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Old 05-18-2009, 03:18 AM   #18
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Sean thank you for writing this down it's these stories that makes all of the awards,uniforms etc,etc come alive.
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Old 05-18-2009, 09:41 AM   #19
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Fascinating.

Can you ask him more about Horst Wessel?
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Old 05-19-2009, 05:25 PM   #20
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Thanks so much Sean, the history is the most interesting part of this hobby. Best, Erich
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Old 05-19-2009, 10:07 PM   #21
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Did he ever mention which sturm and standarte he was with?

These stories from the people who were there are definitely fascinating and always interesting to hear.
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Old 05-20-2009, 12:08 PM   #22
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LAST PART -

SEAN - DID THINGS CHANGE WITH THE SA AFTER THE PURGE?

Georg - Sure SS run the show now with that desk murderer Himmler, we renamed him "Death by Pencil", he never got his hands dirty did he? did he ever fire a shot in anger? i dont think he ever did.
I had some friends in the SS at Lichterfelde, we never spoke after the purge, i think they saw themselves as big shots after that.
We werent used for security duties as we once always did, the SS did all that, i think we certainly had no iron fist anymore.

SEAN - WERE THERE ANY PROBLEMS WITH THE SS?

Georg - Yes sometimes, mainly Bier fueled and pub fights,also remember Rohms avengers where very busy for a while, i never knew personally any SA men who did this, it was carried out very secretly, i certainly felt no sympathy to murdered SS men, they had shown none to our comrades had they?, the Party and press covered these revenge murders up, an SS man was run over by some Mitte SA men, they reversed a few times over him, the press called it a simple traffic accident.

SEAN - WHAT WAS HIMMLERS REPUTATION WITH SA MEN BEFORE AND AFTER?

Georg - He was a desk clerk wasnt he? surrounding himself with SS supermen, such a pity he was certainly no superman, it is a terrible thing in history i looked just like him, although, i at least never took a step back when in a fight and never hid behind others, i dont think Himmler ever used his fists did he? he had a reputation of being a wimp, he certainly never walked through the doors of our Sturm, he wouldnt have walked out alive im sure after 1934.

SEAN - DID YOU EVER SEE HIM PERSONALLY?

Georg - Yes at Nurnberg, strutting around in his big boots and nodding his head alot, poor little Heini.

SEAN - HOW MANY TIMES DID YOU ATTEND THE RALLES?

Georg - 4 to 6 times, it was a great holiday for us Berliners, such a nice part of Germany, our bosses had to give us time off, they had no choice.
We travelled by train from Berlin, the whole train would be SA men, RAD and sometimes Party men, they usually went 1st class, of course, such big shots werent they, we would sometimes bow to them as they passed and say"your royal majesty", they would stay away from the SA part of the train if they could.

SEAN - THE RALLIES WHAT WAS YOUR EXPERIENCE OF THEM?

Georg - I enjoyed them, though so much waiting around and so hot, so many girls waving at us, Rohm before his murder would inspect us, he paid us so much attention, we were his Stormtroopers not the Partys, after Lutze took over, Lutze? treasonous snake, he thought we didnt know he was behind things with Rohms murder, some Sturms hated him and wouldnt follow his face on parade when he inspected, he knew this and tried to avoid certain Sturms, the Hochland SA didnt like him the most i think, maybe it was just a Bavarian thing.

SEAN - DID THE DIFFERENT STURMS GET ALONG?

Georg - Mostly yes, most fights were Bier fuelled as before, Bier its a terrible thing for violence, us and the Hochland lot again sometimes fought, it was Prussian Bavarian rivalry, nothing too serious and we laughed about it when sober.

SEAN - DID YOU EVER READ "DER STURMER"?

Georg - Yes it was a comic really in a disgusting way, some SA men read this religiously, it was so bad and full of rubbish mainly about the jews, why people read it was beyond me, why read something like that? have you ever sean/read any?

SEAN - YES WAS VERY CRASS AND AGGRESSIVE

Georg - Yes,it is no wonder people acted they way they did against the jews reading garbage like that.

SEAN - DID YOU HAVE ANY INVOLVEMENT IN THE 1936 OLYMPICS?

Georg - Personally not so much, the Reichspost did most telegram deliveries between the Sturms, they didnt always want SA men running around near to the stadium, though many did attend, and also steward duties for events, i went and watched the horse events with free tickets, i took Margarete, she loved the horses.

SEAN - WHAT WERE THE FEELINGS OF THE SA ABOUT JESSE OWENS?

Georg - We couldnt believe anyone could run so fast, i read Hitler wouldnt shake his hand or award him medals? im not suprised Hitler was that type wasnt he, there were many rude comments about him in the press and some SA men, about why he could run so fast, not at all nice.

SEAN - WHAT ABOUT YOUR SPORT? SA SPORTS BADGES?

Georg - Yes i earned the Silver badge, i was a good runner really for my size, the running was usually around a track.

SEAN - WHO WORE THESE?(SHOWN A PHOTO OF SA SPORTS ARMBAND)

Georg - I never saw SA men wear these, i think i saw a time keeper in a civilian suit wear one, but i could be wrong, im definate, i never saw SA men wear these though.

SEAN - WHERE YOU STILL IN THE SA AROUND KRYSTALNACHT?

Georg - No i had joined the Luftwaffe in 1937, i was a ground mechanic, i havd been rechecked for my eyesight and passed, i was glad to leave the SA, the best days had gone.

SEAN - WHAT DID YOU HEAR ABOUT THE NIGHT?

Georg - Only the propagande we were fed about a jewish uprising etc etc, all rubbish of course, these poor people, shameful episode, i was glad i was out of it.

SEAN - WHAT HAPPENED TO YOU DURING THE WAR?

Georg - I went to France during the blitzkrieg, what a summer, hot and dusty.
I remained in France until a home posting to Berlin, my first child was born.
Then in 1942 off to the Ostfront, wounded by a falling rear wing section from a 109 in a hanger close to minsk area, it broke my femur, what a hero hey? i was returned to Berlin, so many people would stand up and let me sit down on the tram or underground with my crutches and Ostfront ribbon on my uniform, they would ask how i was injured, "oh we were attacked by a fighter" they would gasp and applaud, well i wasnt lying was i? (laughs loudly)

I remained in Berlin in a reserve unit at Tempelhof before used in a field unit in France against the British soon after D-Day, captured and sent to England with others soldiers.
I worked on a farm in Wiltshire, i was deemed low risk, if they had known i was ex SA i wouldnt have got this, i was no nazi by then thats for sure, i had seen enough to never do another nazi salute ever again.

In 1947 i returned to Berlin, my wife had survived but my first born died in a daylight bombing raid, my mother and oldest sister made it, my youngest sister died near to Brandenburg also in a bombing raid.

So i made a fresh start again fixing motorcycles, ive lived in Tempelhof ever since, my wife died in 1984 to cancer.

SEAN - HAVE YOU ANY REGRETS?

Georg - Of course, without people like me the nazis would have never come to power and acted as they did.
The regime after 1934 was based on greed and power and opressing innocent people, nothing more, Hitler was a tyrant, his closest aides fawning puppies for him, we stood and remained silent as a nation to the killings and loss of freedoms for ourselves and other nations. The camps? they did exist, dont allow people to say they didnt, i knew many who had seen these places, to doubt is to insult the memory of those who suffered and died.

I was an SA Mann. Georg - April 2009

(Sean - i hope all who read these transcripts have enjoyed them, my fingers havent. this Saturday i return to Berlin for a wedding reception, i will be visiting Georg and taking K,s laptop so he can read the final draft and also all your kind words placed onto the thread, Georg has kindly allowed me photograph his SA file photo, taken in 1934, this is his only visual memory of his time in the SA, his wife kept it.
When we spoke to Georg about the early 30s and Bierhall punch ups he would sometimes lean over forward over his stick, fall silent and stare straight past us, I THINK FOR A SECOND, HE WAS BACK IN THOSE BIERHALLS
Gruss gott, Sean

Last edited by luftwaffe blue; 05-20-2009 at 12:13 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old 05-20-2009, 12:10 PM   #23
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Georg - SA Neu- Kolln - Sturm 3 Brig 29
1934
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File Type: jpg sa mann.jpg (117.3 KB, 1211 views)
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Old 05-20-2009, 12:21 PM   #24
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Fantastic thread! It's a rare treat to read and I'll pin it so it doesn't get lost. I love the 'fighter attack' explanation for his broken femur as well!
Thanks for sharing the interview and many thanks to Georg for sharing his experiences with us!
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Old 05-20-2009, 03:32 PM   #25
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Thank you Sean and ofcourse Georg to take us back in the days where it all started.These interviews are documents that should never be forgotten.i salute the man who was there and lived it all trough.My sincere thanks to both Sean and Georg.
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Old 05-20-2009, 05:13 PM   #26
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thank you both for sharing with us all...

the effort must have at times seemed too much, but i assure you, we are very grateful....
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Old 05-20-2009, 06:50 PM   #27
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Sean, thanks for bringing this insight into history to us and thanks to Georg for being so accomodating with an interview. This was a great thread.
Richard V
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Mann soll auch seine Feinde lieben!
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Old 05-24-2009, 09:05 AM   #28
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Very interesting!
Thank you for the good work.
Notton
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Old 05-25-2009, 12:13 AM   #29
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Thanks for posting.
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Old 05-26-2009, 09:29 AM   #30
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Fantastic posting and a wonderful story.

Ernst Schwarz died on the 19th January 1932. (Dokumente der Zeitgeschichte 1942)
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