wehrmacht awards


Go Back   Wehrmacht-Awards.com Militaria Forums > Ken Jasper International Militaria Forums > Imperial Militaria Forum

Imperial Militaria Forum The discussion and study of Imperial German awards and of their Central Powers Allies from the First World War

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes

PLEASE HELP Award Document
Old 06-15-2019, 08:11 AM   #1
DKNYC71
Member
 
DKNYC71's Avatar
 
DKNYC71 is offline
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 1,215
Default PLEASE HELP Award Document

Dear Forum Members,

Has anyone seen one of these Iron Cross award documents before? It was folded at one point and the paper is actually a bit darker than what appears in this image. I was trying to see the stamp, but it has faded to time. I attempted to darken and sharpen the image.

All feedback and information would be much appreciated.

Regards,
Dave.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_8156a.jpg (97.9 KB, 177 views)
  Reply With Quote

2
Old 06-15-2019, 08:11 AM   #2
DKNYC71
Member
 
DKNYC71's Avatar
 
DKNYC71 is offline
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 1,215
Default 2

2
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_8158c.jpg (147.5 KB, 179 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_8158b.jpg (184.8 KB, 178 views)
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-15-2019, 10:17 AM   #3
Forssmann
Association Member
 
Forssmann's Avatar
 
Forssmann is offline
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: NC
Posts: 197
Default

Kinda hard to say without having it in hand. There wasnt really a standard format for these documents. You'll see some common formats, uncommon formats, some were even hand written on a blank piece of paper. I like to see the unit stamp, but what is strange is the grid line looking stuff where all the info has been entered on the document, including the stamp. Dont know how those would get there, one might assume a transfer of some sort? Again, hard to tell, but I would probably add it to my collection
__________________
2D BN 9TH Marines - Hell in a Helmet
OEF 2011 & 2012
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-15-2019, 10:42 AM   #4
VtwinVince
Association Member
 
VtwinVince is offline
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,314
Default

This particular format has been faked in large numbers in recent years. That and the very early date for award of an EK1 to a junior officer are obvious red flags.
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-15-2019, 08:35 PM   #5
DKNYC71
Member
 
DKNYC71's Avatar
 
DKNYC71 is offline
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 1,215
Default

Thank you very much gents! I thought there maybe something wrong with this document, which is why I posted it for opinion. I will clearly pass on it. What struck me a bit odd was the absence of a first name for the recipient, also the EK rendition on top is very crude, something which I imagine would not be the case on an original.
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-15-2019, 10:01 PM   #6
Willi Z.
Forums Moderator
 
Willi Z.'s Avatar
 
Willi Z. is offline
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 22,942
Default

Fake without a doubt.
__________________

Willi

Preußens Gloria!

On a journey returning to my Nüchternheit roots.
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-09-2019, 07:19 PM   #7
Chip M
Member
 
Chip M's Avatar
 
Chip M is offline
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Midwest
Posts: 4,420
Default

The document is for an EKII, not an EKI. Not that it makes any difference to the legitimacy of the document, but it does negate one of the complaints.
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-14-2019, 08:13 AM   #8
Green
Association Member
 
Green's Avatar
 
Green is online now
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Holland
Posts: 1,182
Default

I have a little tip to see if a document is genuine or not.

Hold the document against the light. They are usually provided with a paper watermark
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-14-2019, 08:29 AM   #9
Green
Association Member
 
Green's Avatar
 
Green is online now
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Holland
Posts: 1,182
Default

These are two certificates for the EK II & EK I. I hold the documents against the light and the paper factory watermarks are clearly to see!

EK I & II Urkunde 1914 Brandenburgisch Nr 12 (2).jpg

EK I & II Urkunde 1914 Brandenburgisch Nr 12 (3).jpg

EK I & II Urkunde 1914 Brandenburgisch Nr 12 (6).jpg

EK I & II Urkunde 1914 Brandenburgisch Nr 12 (7).jpg
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-14-2019, 03:59 PM   #10
tompress
Forum Sponsor
 
tompress's Avatar
 
tompress is offline
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Silesia
Posts: 886
Default

Nice. This paper is from the factory J. H. Eppen in Winsen an der Luhe.

But missing watermark must be not evidence of falsificate. This type of watermark, called NORMAL, was present only in a few positions of big paper sheet, so many paper pieces of same sheet were w/o watermark.

regards
Tomasz
__________________
https://tompress.shop


Last edited by tompress; 07-14-2019 at 04:11 PM.
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-15-2019, 06:39 AM   #11
Green
Association Member
 
Green's Avatar
 
Green is online now
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Holland
Posts: 1,182
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tompress View Post
Nice. This paper is from the factory J. H. Eppen in Winsen an der Luhe.

But missing watermark must be not evidence of falsificate. This type of watermark, called NORMAL, was present only in a few positions of big paper sheet, so many paper pieces of same sheet were w/o watermark.

regards
Tomasz
You are right off course, missing watermark is not evidence of falsificate, but that is why I wrote "little tip". It is just one of those things who are worth knowing!

Thanks in any case for the addition
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-15-2019, 08:42 AM   #12
Brian R
Association Member
 
Brian R's Avatar
 
Brian R is offline
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: New York
Posts: 4,033
Default

I don't see any reason to think this is a fake award document. Pioneer Regiment No. 25 did exist at this time and was engaged in attacking enemy fortresses.

These are tough ones to judge in that this is a 1917 dated document for a 1914 award. This was very common and the awarding authority may or may not have any connection with the actual regiment and its actions from almost three years earlier.
__________________
Iron Cross Award Documents of World War II - Out Now!

info@kleinekillpress.com
www.kleinekillpress.com
  Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump






vBulletin skins developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright Wehrmacht-Awards.com