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Juncker Commemorative Pilot Badge
Old 10-06-2019, 02:28 PM   #1
Lubo
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Default Juncker Commemorative Pilot Badge

Hey guys, has anyone seen such a hinge on a Juncker commemorative pilot badge?
What do you think?
I like it, especially the wear pattern, but a few extra sets of eyes are always more helpful.
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Old 10-06-2019, 03:25 PM   #2
Ferg 1
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There seem to be plenty of these type around , at one point a few years ago almost every well known dealer had one . Although it purports to be Juncker , and it could well be , the details are different to the silver Juncker examples . These type always have this lesser quality hinge/hardware set up. Popular consensus indicates that these are made by Juncker and were for sale in other outlets as a cheaper piece ( they are usually non silver ) whether this is true or not is subject to guesswork as is so much of this collecting field . They are never marked either so , again guesswork. The main difference in detail is the rounded lower edge to the tail feathers compared to the-marked Juncker badges that are more angular . It just concerns me at the high quantity of these ‘ Junckers ‘
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Old 10-06-2019, 04:03 PM   #3
Jelle M.
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A textbook Juncker badge. This example is produced in the third reich era, so a late example. The setup is very similar to other Juncker badges from that time. The basemetal of the badge is tombak. You can see it peeping through on the obverse if you look closer.

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Old 10-06-2019, 10:49 PM   #4
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Looks good to me as well.
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Old 10-07-2019, 01:26 AM   #5
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How do you know this type was produced in the TR period ?? That’s news to me , also you say ‘ text book Juncker ‘ but this design differs from the marked silver Juncker examples , these are never marked by that maker . The back plate looks Juncker and certain parts of the reverse hardware but that’s it.
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Old 10-07-2019, 03:46 AM   #6
Jelle M.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferg 1 View Post
How do you know this type was produced in the TR period ?? That’s news to me , also you say ‘ text book Juncker ‘ but this design differs from the marked silver Juncker examples , these are never marked by that maker . The back plate looks Juncker and certain parts of the reverse hardware but that’s it.
Ferg
Hi Ferg,

The silver Juncker pieces are indeed never maker marked, only the silver stamp. The badge that started this thread is made from tombak, not silver. That would explain the lack of any mark.
This type of badge was instituted in the early twenties but production last till the late thirties. The set-up of the silver pieces marked with the halfmoon and 800 is very similar to the wartime imperial flight badges. It's safe to assume these silver pieces were the very first examples. Looking at the example that started this thread, the set-up is has more in common with the third reich produced badges than the imperial. Also the use of tombak as basemetal is in line with this period. You are right that i was a bit too fast in stating textbook Juncker, a better description would be 'textbook badge most likely attributed to Juncker.

Kind regards,
Jelle
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Old 10-07-2019, 11:25 AM   #7
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Sorry ,I have to disagree again, there are numerous examples around that are silver Juncker pieces and are marked with company name and silver purity mark ,I have a couple myself ,there are also three examples in Carsten Baldes book with full MM and silver marks . Quite often a badge from this maker will be encountered with the mm ground off leaving just the 800 and crescent , reason unknown . Also I don’t think that a badge made of tombac would be a reason not to mark it with maker stamp ,look at the Juncker air gunner badges .
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Old 10-15-2019, 04:58 PM   #8
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I think it‘s best to be seen at the eagles tail...
Unless Juncker had two different dies, these „rounded-tail“-specimens are still waiting for their attribution to a certain manufacturer.
I do have one of them myself and what I find really annoying is those strange scratch marks on the outer rim of the reverse:
They look like some rotating device ground almost circular scratches (pretty deep) into the metal. I found them (on pictures from the net) on several other examples of the badge in question.
I decided for me that this is a trace of originality because I assume that these badges are contemporary pieces, at least before 1945
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Hagrid
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Old 10-18-2019, 03:49 AM   #9
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As an illustration for the remarks made above:
A side-by-side-comparison of the reverse of my own example and one sold by Hermann Historica. (I thought it was the same badge on the first glance...but there are minor differences in the scratch patterns!)
Plus a closeup of the areas in question, same as shown on the threadstarter badge.
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Hagrid
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Old 10-18-2019, 02:22 PM   #10
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Just an observation regarding the badge type that started this thread, I was always of the impression that these commemorative badge were fairly rare . I’ve just had a count up of this particular badge ,that people call Juncker produced , and I find 11 of them on just two dealer sites ! They are all this type with the rounded shape to the lower tail feathers . The pieces I class as Juncker have a more angular lower trailing tail feathers . Worrying or ..........just me ?
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Old 10-18-2019, 08:30 PM   #11
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Hi guys, IMO there is nothing wrong with these badges, as long as we don’t cling by the illusion that they are definitely WWI era. I too think they are Juncker made, post WWI era, but definitely before the beginning of WWII.
Why these badges are never marked for Juncker, begs for more speculations, but it’s not Ok to outright dismiss the fact that Juncker actually operated this second die in the post WWI era, as we know they were active in these years. Why look for a new candidate as their maker, when we have the obvious one - Juncker, in front of us.

Here is a new one, take a look at these Meybauers, both claimed (by some authors) to be post WWI (I’m not saying they are WWI, but there somewhere, was drawn a line, we can speculate all we want), due to finish, lack of hallmark, less detail, you name it!? Even one author is saying that they look so bad, that no one would’ve worn them?!?!?!
We know that Meybauer often omitted their hallmark in their proven WWI era work, we also know that the detail in these is definitely NOT inferior to the hallmarked ones (accepted WWI production). Some people like to judge them by the count the weep holes, measure their size and so on, that again IMO, is nothing but speculations. The only 2 characteristics left standing that could point “for sure” to the post WWI era are: the NOT real silver base metal (although that some could be made of silver) and of course the crappy white wash finish.
As for them to be made by someone else - not Meybauer, would be a veeery long shot. Again, these are as available as the thread starter type, and in the same price range, but that don’t make them post WWII
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Last edited by Lubo; 10-18-2019 at 08:37 PM.
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Old 11-15-2019, 11:20 AM   #12
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What do you think about these Meybauers!
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