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Flag, Pennant and Standarte Forum Wehrmacht, Political and Organizational Standards, flags, and car pennants.

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Old 01-11-2019, 12:14 PM   #16
John Robinson
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That is a great book and of course, I own it. Recommend it highly to all HJ collectors.

Are you still going to write a book about the MHJ?

John
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Old 01-11-2019, 01:25 PM   #17
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Wonderful scarce flag. Thanks for sharing it. Johnno.
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Old 01-11-2019, 04:43 PM   #18
wilhelm Saris
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Robinson View Post
Are you still going to write a book about the MHJ?
John
Wasn't that the plan from Daniel (Marine-HJ)?
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Old 01-11-2019, 07:52 PM   #19
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Wasn't that the plan from Daniel (Marine-HJ)?
As I understand it, that is his plan at some point, when, I have no idea. I was hoping you would go forward with the project and of course you have the experience in writing books through Bender.

I was also hoping to see a book on KM tallies by the authors of the Imperial tally book (Bernd and Markus), but that is apparently never going to happen. It had the full support of a publisher in the US but the project simply stopped several years ago about half way through I think. A real shame.

I do not have the complete resources Dani has in regards to known MHJ units but I do my best with my personal list. Anything I have you are more than welcome to see without restriction.

Even if it would just be a chapter in a book of broader subject matter.

John
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Old 01-12-2019, 04:38 AM   #20
wilhelm Saris
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Quote:
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I was hoping you would go forward with the project and of course you have the experience in writing books through Bender.
I was also hoping to see a book on KM tallies by the authors of the Imperial tally book (Bernd and Markus), but that is apparently never going to happen. It had the full support of a publisher in the US but the project simply stopped several years ago about half way through I think. A real shame. John

Normally volume 6 for the series "Headgear of Hitler's Germany" would have been dedicated to the HJ (maybe even volume 7), but the subject just on headgear is that massive that mr. Bender did not want to have another "handbook"-size book, due to its size (shipping costs are for many too high). Due to the including of all ns-schools systems the book eventually would grow into two volumes and that was not something we intended or wanted. To make a brief book does not make any sense! So volume 6 and 7 are now dedicated to state organizations.

I think the tally-books will not come ever indeed. Bernd and Markus do not cooperate anymore for many years and there were other problems. The interest from Bernd got lost and what he told me, he has finally stopped the project, which indeed is a shame as their knowledge was outstanding on tallies (and I know what material was waiting for us).

So if ever a volume on headgear for the HJ will come, I have no idea. Nor will come another book from Bernd and Markus. And who knows maybe not ever a book will come from Daniel. It would be a pity!!
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Old 01-24-2019, 06:37 PM   #21
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Very interesting information contained in "Youth led by Youth" by Phillip Baker, Vilmor Publications 1989. The books are long out of print and almost impossible to find anymore. Mr. Baker owned this flag and it later went to Toby then to me back in 2008. Mr. Baker has since died unfortunately.

However, a friend sent me the applicable sections, attached here.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Baker 1.jpg (81.9 KB, 64 views)
File Type: jpg Baker 2.jpg (48.1 KB, 64 views)
File Type: jpg Baker 3.jpg (120.0 KB, 64 views)
File Type: jpg Baker 4.jpg (80.0 KB, 64 views)
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Old 01-26-2019, 05:10 PM   #22
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Hello,
there were so many Marine-HJ units and all of them should have a flag with dark blue corner patch according to the regulations. Are there none in existence anymore? Any known in collections? Could not even find period pictures. But why are those flags so rare?
Best, Thomas
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Old 01-26-2019, 06:04 PM   #23
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Very good question. I do not know the answer it to though. In fact, I am not sure how many of these flags at the top of this post, the early company flags, exist either.

Are there HJ flag collectors out there that can answer?

John
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Old 01-26-2019, 06:06 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planet View Post
Hello,
there were so many Marine-HJ units and all of them should have a flag with dark blue corner patch according to the regulations. Are there none in existence anymore? Any known in collections? Could not even find period pictures. But why are those flags so rare?
Best, Thomas
Even the tallies are rare, at least there are almost no duplicates out there. Some, but not many. For this flag I posted, there are two from the same unit of course.

You would think that there would be more cap tallies and MHJ caps, but there are not many, compared to the total produced, for some reason.

So most cap tallies are one of a kind, even for large MHJ units, like Berlin.

John
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Old 01-27-2019, 04:15 PM   #25
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But has anybody here ever seen or own a MHJ flag with the right navyblue corner patch as RZM-regulations stated? Or does anybody have a period picture with such a flag in use?
Best, Thomas
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Old 01-27-2019, 05:16 PM   #26
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Quote:
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But has anybody here ever seen or own a MHJ flag with the right navyblue corner patch as RZM-regulations stated? Or does anybody have a period picture with such a flag in use?
Best, Thomas

Yes, one. Posted on HJ research forum. Not entire flag though, just corner
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Old 01-28-2019, 07:58 AM   #27
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This flag was posted here by William J years ago:

According to member Darin here, "according to the 1934 Bann List the location would be Ludwigshafen of the West/Hessen-Nassau Gebiet. An MHJ Bann from this region would make sense as it is located along the Rhine".

The location of this flag is unknown today.

Like the flag at the top, this flag was clearly ripped from the pole IMO.

John
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File Type: jpg MarineHJ2.jpg (43.1 KB, 40 views)
File Type: jpg MarineHJ3.jpg (25.1 KB, 40 views)
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Old 01-28-2019, 08:00 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planet View Post
Hello,
there were so many Marine-HJ units and all of them should have a flag with dark blue corner patch according to the regulations. Are there none in existence anymore? Any known in collections? Could not even find period pictures. But why are those flags so rare?
Best, Thomas
I do not have permission from the owner of that patch to post the blue corner MHJ flag from the HJ Research Forum. Maybe Darin can to do it. Again, no image of entire flag, just the corner patch.

John
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Old 01-28-2019, 09:11 AM   #29
wilhelm Saris
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Would like to know from what period this is. Must be early as the B indication had to dissolve January 1, 1936,
Further I would like to see a regulation about the patches. The flag is not to as according the 1935 flag description.
In this regulation naval was not specifically mentioned and I doubt there were much Gefolgschaft size naval units
(maybe Berlin or Hamburg or so). A Gefolgschaft had about 150 boys in 1934/1935. The shown flag is for Gefolgschaft.

I think this flag is a sort of traditionsflag as it is not according the 1935-standards. Bann-size is out of the question!!

Question for Planet: have you ever seen the navy-blue corner patch described in the RZM-regulations? Tell me where
I can find that, please!

Last edited by wilhelm Saris; 01-28-2019 at 09:18 AM.
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Old 01-28-2019, 09:18 AM   #30
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Wilhem,

You are correct of course, and you have the regulations and I do not, that this flag is not strictly authorized, nor is mine.

I also think that these company sized, at best, MHJ units probably did not have flags for the part, a dedicated flag. Too small perhaps.

I also think that while there were regulations, if the boys wanted to march around with a flag, the old retired naval veteran that was the adult leader let them if it made them feel better.

What boys anywhere do not like to have their own flag!

Maybe put away if some very senior adult came by but for their meetings, or little parades around town, I think it is possible it was allowed by the adult supervisors.

My theory.

John
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