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Old 12-02-2004, 10:35 PM   #61
Willi Z.
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John, I would have to see photos of your black plastic oilers before I can comment. Postwar repros have been made in both brown and black plastic.

Peter, that is a very cool kit! That chain does appear to be the latest style I have seen.

Greg, nice pre-war kit.

I am going to a good gun show this weekend, so will have to start looking for more variations.
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Rg34
Old 12-03-2004, 02:00 PM   #62
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Many thanks to Phosphateb for passing this thread along to me. John is aware that I have been researching these kits for some time. I am collecting information for a reference publication of some type specifically addressing the Rg34 cleaning kits. Great pics guys, thanks for sharing. I have a couple of comments and questions that are of interest:

Willi - On your third brush kit: Very nice and unusual in that it appears to have steel retention clips instead of brass. Is this correct? The only examples of these kits I have documented are early models that are marked G. Appel only with no WaA or date. I would appreciate if you could pass along any makers marks or stampings from this kit.

Peter - Thanks of course for all of the information you have provided in the past. Your items are excellent and very scarce. You are of course correct in regard to the third 9mm brush. I am always in awe of your G. Appel 1935 items and the cmr45 with the last type steel loop chain. These very late steel loop chains have also been obxerved in CNX marked kits.

Robert - On your 5.6 (or .22) caliber kit: Are there any makers stamps or dates on the chain toggle or weight? Also of interest is that original period reference material on these kits indicate they were not issued with a takedown tool.

Robert - Great shots of the late war ordnance tan kits. You indicate that both of these kits bear WaA numbers. Could you please advise the numbers for each kit. I am especially interested in the WaA stamp on the rco45 as the examples I have previously recorded have no WaA.

The 64 marked kit is by G. Appel. They changed from the G. Appel marked and dated cans in the late 30's and went to the wartime numerical code of 64. This changed to cnx in 1940 or 41. The last G. Appel kits are stamped with upper case CNX and were probably made in very late 1944 or 45.

I am of the opinion that your 64 marked kit was armory refurbished/repainted and reissued sometime after late 1943 when the ordnance tan paint starts to show up on field gear and equipment. In addition to this kit I have documented the following marks on refurbished/repainted ordnance tan kits: Hawig (logo), Ky1939, and cnx. I am sure there are others.

Carl - Great work on your web site. Very important and valuable. Sorry that I was unable to provide further assistance. I have been unable to do much writing or research since 9/11. My apologies.

Ed - I agee with Willi's assertion that your kit is an rco45. Sometimes those markings are very faint. I suspect that the small brush with wire handle was added by the GI who captured or used the kit. Allied soldiers loved these Rg34 and one will often find US or Brit cleaning equipment, pull-throughs, brushes, grease tubes, etc in the kits. I have cigar box almost full of items removed from kits. I think it will make a neat picture for the book.

Willi - The rco45 stamped takedown tool is rare. Only the third one I have recorded.

I am of the opinion that the takedown tool or "spoon" was included in these kits right up to the end of the war. This is documented by the stamping of late war tools with arr4, arr44, and rco45 as well as the very late "flat stamped" tools often encountered in the cnx marked kits. Willi illustrates one of these on page 1 of this string (middle).

These are my thoughts only and different view points or opinions are encouraged - Lance O. Adams .......
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Old 12-03-2004, 02:50 PM   #63
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Hi Lance!

Welcome to the forum!
I hope that you soon can assist a bit on web, I must admit that I havent been able to provide any more value of information.

Best regards

Carl
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Old 12-03-2004, 04:48 PM   #64
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Here is an example of an ftd marked kit. It is a relatively rare maker.



On the side of the kit, the soldier that captured it, scratched his name, date & location where he got it. It is interesting to note that there is a red primer underneath the green paint (on the end pieces) similar to what is found on original sniper scope cans.



It came with an ftd marked oiler & chain.

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Old 12-03-2004, 05:19 PM   #65
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Hi, all.

I have a cmr 41 kit, very complete with all accessories, but it is painted blue. Is this a Luftwaffe thing? It is definitely blue, not green. And does not look repainted. I'll get some pics up, if you would like.

Also, the pull through chain seems to have silver beads which are not aluminum, seems like plastic? (Postwar? but it's waffenampted! I admit I know little about these.)

(edit) - nevermind, they are aluminum, but a couple are corroded, and it looked at first glance like melted plastic. wierd. I'll post pics later.

Thanks!

Last edited by ditch68; 12-04-2004 at 12:04 AM.
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Old 12-10-2004, 11:03 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Willi Zahn
John, I would have to see photos of your black plastic oilers before I can comment. Postwar repros have been made in both brown and black plastic..
Willie here is the example on fleabay. I have found these in 5 rco 45 kits..not saying they are right but on the kits i got they were in them? These kits IMO had not been used post war. Anyone need an incomplete rco 45 kit pm me.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...sPageName=WDVW
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Old 12-10-2004, 11:54 AM   #67
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Here is the only one I kept, and I have had many. I got this one from a Red Ball Express vets estate sale on 26-4-1992. I paid $20 for it then, which was high at the time. Aluminium barrels on a steel chain which shows much use. All markings are 64, and is painted, but do not see a date.
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Old 12-10-2004, 11:55 AM   #68
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Engler painted on one side and incomplete on other.
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Old 12-10-2004, 11:57 AM   #69
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can mark
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Old 12-10-2004, 11:59 AM   #70
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Wadding
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Old 12-10-2004, 02:15 PM   #71
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Smashing matching Kit terry! $20 must have been quite high then as you said but it looks well worth it, I've never seen named kit before!

Matt
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Old 12-10-2004, 03:58 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ditch68
Hi, all.

I have a cmr 41 kit, very complete with all accessories, but it is painted blue. Is this a Luftwaffe thing? It is definitely blue, not green. And does not look repainted. I'll get some pics up, if you would like.

Also, the pull through chain seems to have silver beads which are not aluminum, seems like plastic? (Postwar? but it's waffenampted! I admit I know little about these.)

(edit) - nevermind, they are aluminum, but a couple are corroded, and it looked at first glance like melted plastic. wierd. I'll post pics later.

Thanks!
Sounds just like mine Jeff.

Bakelite oiler?

Cheers,
David.
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Old 12-10-2004, 07:29 PM   #73
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here is my small collection of rg34's. The upper left one is I believe a g.appel 22 rifle cleaning kit. the upper green one is a AR4. The rco 45s are present as you can see by the ordnance tan color late war RG34
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Black Composition Oilers
Old 12-10-2004, 07:45 PM   #74
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John et al,

The black composition oilers are definitely of late war vintage. They are of the same construction as the other late oilers that can be found in brown, dark brown, orange and colors in between. Some are also two-tone with the top and bottom of a different color than the body. One can see the production quality decrease on the later ones. Also there is a noticible increase in the amount of pulp material in the composition mixture. In my data bases I have a number of recorded black oilers from late ab, cmr, arr, and rco kits. In my experience the predominate oiler located in the rco kits is the stamped sheet metal type.

On the subject of post war oilers. I have seen the brown and many of the two-tone type post war oilers. Do not recall seeing one in black. The oiler in John's link to the ebay auction appears to have all of the attributes of a wartime model and is correct in my opinion.

Terry - Very nice and on the scarce side completes 64 kit by G. Appel. Your $20 was well spent.

Lance o. Adams .....
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Old 12-10-2004, 08:06 PM   #75
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Lance, thanks for all your valuable information! I am glad this thread attracted so much interest, and some fine RG34s. That one on ebay looks like mismatched components, but does have a black plastic oiler. I have yet to see a black plastic oiler in a matched kit, but there is always something new to discover.
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