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1st model railway question.
Old 12-27-2018, 06:26 AM   #1
Bulldog
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Default 1st model railway question.

I know the 1st model railway daggers are questionable but i was wondering if anyone could explain something that has been on my mind. One of the potential makers of these daggers are Klaas and i have seen the grip on their daggers described as being a long grip, if this is correct and the grip (perhaps also the blade tang) is longer than a normal army grip then would these grips not have had to have been made especially for these daggers, therefore is there a chance that these 1st model railway daggers are genuine examples and not just army daggers with a black grip?

Russ.
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Old 12-27-2018, 07:17 AM   #2
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This is what i'm on about.

https://www.lakesidetrader.com/item.php?ID=21492

Russ.
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Old 12-27-2018, 08:50 AM   #3
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I would like to know why these black gripped heer daggers are connected to the railway ?, is it a dealers lie to make extra cash from collectors ?, any real rock solid evidence out there ?, if soneone has it please show us because these daggers are not cheap ,
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The white grip
Old 12-27-2018, 09:06 AM   #4
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Default The white grip

Some dealers/collectors feel the black grips were originally issued with white painted grips and that the paint has deteriorated over the years leaving the black grip.
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Old 12-27-2018, 09:10 AM   #5
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I can produce a specimen by this afternoon.
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File Type: jpg IMG_0364 - Copy.jpg (111.2 KB, 500 views)
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Thinking of trading my badge collection for a Hayabusa or ZX14......or a good horse....
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Old 12-27-2018, 09:12 AM   #6
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If the tang was longer to accommodate a longer grip that would make it unique for sure, but the one shown does not seem to have anything but a black grip with 9 turns just like a standard army dagger grip. Looks like a black handled army dagger called something else! But maybe someone can tells us more.

Steve
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Old 12-27-2018, 12:47 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldog View Post
I know the 1st model railway daggers are questionable but i was wondering if anyone could explain something that has been on my mind. One of the potential makers of these daggers are Klaas and i have seen the grip on their daggers described as being a long grip, if this is correct and the grip (perhaps also the blade tang) is longer than a normal army grip then would these grips not have had to have been made especially for these daggers, therefore is there a chance that these 1st model railway daggers are genuine examples and not just army daggers with a black grip?

Russ.
Russ, What is often overlooked in some of these discussions is the fact that the supposed "1st Model Railway Daggers" have a 'very close kissing cousin' in the "Luftwaffe Funeral Daggers" with black grips. So while those with IMO wild imaginations combined with an absolute lack of corroborative evidence*, as they did in the past, can speculate on the reasons for the black grips. But using Occam's Razor as a guide instead, the simplest explanation is most likely they are just a manufacturing variation necessitated by a lack of the materials they used to use (before the supply of the earlier materials dried up) and they had to find and use substitutes. * Discussed elsewhere at different times and places - sometimes at great length there is no actual period evidence for either the "1st Model Railway Daggers" or the "Luftwaffe Funeral Daggers" with black grips. (Not that it has stopped the advertising and selling of them to collectors.) FP
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Old 12-28-2018, 06:07 AM   #8
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Thanks for the replies guys, if anyone has one of these "1st model railway" daggers that appears to have a long grip it would be interesting to know the measurements of the grip and especially the blade tang to compare it to an ordinary army dagger.

Russ.
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Old 12-28-2018, 10:13 AM   #9
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Different producers has a different size of dagger grips. Like Holler and Horster Solingen.




Schlange

https://mojalbum.com/schlange88

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=916564
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Old 12-30-2018, 05:54 PM   #10
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A period photo of a 1st model railway in wear would be interesting to see , anybody got a pic to show ?
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Old 01-12-2019, 06:30 AM   #11
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A great thread on these so called 1st model railway daggers on WRF with period evidence from Wilhelm Saris that they never existed , a good read


http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/heer/1...railway+dagger
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Old 01-12-2019, 02:31 PM   #12
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An excellent WRF thread full of info. Thanks for sharing it, I believe I missed it seeing it previously.
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Old 01-13-2019, 11:26 AM   #13
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Quote:
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An excellent WRF thread full of info. Thanks for sharing it, I believe I missed it seeing it previously.


Glad to help Billy


maybe the dealers should have a read
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Old 01-18-2019, 04:18 PM   #14
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Was Eickhorn a known maker of black gripped armies, aka 1st model railways?
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Old 01-18-2019, 05:18 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sogcollector View Post
Was Eickhorn a known maker of black gripped armies, aka 1st model railways?
I’m not quite sure just what it is exactly that you are looking for. There are “collector myths” like the “gold” General Officer’s daggers , the German Army and Luftwaffe black handled “Funeral daggers", the deep orange colored handles“General Officer’s daggers”. And an early myth that being the German Army black handled “Engineer’s dagger”. That dagger later on was converted into the so-called “1st model Railway” dagger for those collectors - trading one myth for another. With that said - years ago there was also what was almost a cult with some guys that were swapping out grips trading up and down to get what they thought would look most attractive on their daggers - before the practice took a lot of criticism and faded away. White the only color to be found in period publications, military regulations, or catalogs (Eickhorn included). FP
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