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"Pioneer bayonet"? on E-stand
Old 08-01-2019, 04:18 AM   #1
Schlange
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Default "Pioneer bayonet"? on E-stand

I like to hear some opinions about these one "Pioneer bayonet"?:

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...27#post8503527

IMO these is German WW1 K98 combat bayonet, (Stamp on blade spin.), with replaced grips, re-painted scabbard and subsequently nickel plated handle, flash guard and blade.

Seller's description:
"The blade of this long dress bayonet is in top condition: completely mirror bright!. Reverse is marked “GEBR. HELLER MARIENTHAL”. It also shows several stamps on its spine.

The steel hilt is quite interesting: pioneer version with a flashguard in place. It shows spanner rivets (mostly used by e. Pack) holding nicely carved stag grips firmly in place.
The stud shown a beautifully engraved personalization: “W. Schütze”, which must have been the name of the initial owner.
The reverse guard has a number stamp “410”, which we also find on the scabbard.

The scabbard shows no dings, but its paint must have been retouched a long time ago as it shows quit a bid of wear."


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http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=916564
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Old 08-01-2019, 09:10 AM   #2
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The bayonet is a postwar WW1 possible reconfiguration to dress version also this is a WW1 S84/98nA bayonet which was normally used by imperial army and sharpened, serialed with scabbard, postwar were the metall parts nickeled or chrome plated, new horn grips were added and black paint on scabbard, the screw should be measured that are smaller as WW1 period, added the owner ? name on lock nut. b.r.Andy
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Old 08-01-2019, 09:48 AM   #3
sb98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schlange View Post
IMO these is German WW1 K98 combat bayonet, (Stamp on blade spin.), with replaced grips, re-painted scabbard and subsequently nickel plated handle, flash guard and blade.
That's an accurate description. I wouldn't have called this a "pioneer bayonet", that implies it was manufactured as a dress bayonet, which it wasn't. It's a combat piece that was converted to a dress bayonet.
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Old 08-02-2019, 02:02 AM   #4
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I think that these discussion need to be linked to bayonet sale topic.
Potential buyers have a right to know what they are looking / buying.


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bayo
Old 08-02-2019, 11:22 AM   #5
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Default bayo

hello
this i a reglo combat bayonet , transformed during enter the 2 wars , weimar ?
for me a good period transformation no common to see, a good piece for a (parade bayos)collector
best regards
patrick
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Old 08-02-2019, 11:53 AM   #6
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Or maybe after WW2?
We can only speculate on this.
Is not standard factor made WW1 or WW2 dress bayonet for me.
But at least I can have a good laugh at the seller's bayo description.


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Old 08-02-2019, 07:14 PM   #7
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It is clearly not as described, and the last comment added to the sales thread is nonsense.
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Old 08-03-2019, 03:31 AM   #8
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More real a older NCO used the old depot storages and ordered a refurbishment of older S84/98nA combat version to dress configuration which was certainly cheaper as buy a new KS98 , i would tend to early Weimar period, max prior to NS period, possible used by them as dress piece. Engraved with name on lock nut. Even in various sale katalogs declared as Pioneer version, its a normal S84/98 bayonet version. b.r.Andy
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Old 08-03-2019, 04:26 PM   #9
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I’d like to think I know a little more about bayonets than just “very basic stuff”, but I’ve never heard of an S84/98 combat bayonet being referred to a “pioneer bayonet”. In collector terminology a “pioneer bayonet” is a dress bayonet made with a hilt mimicking the style of an S84/98 bayonet’s hilt, not an actual S84/98 combat bayonet with nickel plating applied to the blade and hilt.

The bayonet on the e-stand looks like it could have been converted to a dress bayonet pre-1945, but it’s not a slam dunk. The scabbard has been repainted and shows no sign of being worn in a frog afterward. If it had been worn in a frog the frog would leave a telltale wear pattern on the paint but there isn’t any. Also, the grips could have been replaced at any time.

Maybe this is a period conversion, or a Weimar era conversion (plated blade and hilt) that’s been spruced by replacing the grips and repainting the scabbard, or a complete post-war conversion. There’s really no way to tell for sure when this was converted to a dress bayonet, but the scabbard being repainted and showing no signs of having been worn in a frog afterward demonstrates at least some work (whenever that was) was done on it after it was last being worn.
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Old 08-04-2019, 03:28 AM   #10
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I would agree with the last opinion, black paint on scabbard and horn grips could be realised much later as the upgrade from service bayonet to dress nickel plated configuration. b.r.Andy
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