Experts for Hitler signature wanted!

[randy@treadways]

The fact that it is signed in pencil should not by itself put it into the fake category. There are more than one photo of Hitler signing a postcard with a pencil...and I believe that there is one photo showing him with a whole stack of such postcards, again with a pencil in hand.
I believe that Hoffmann printed versions of some postcards with a wider border, specifically to give room for autographs. (again, the fact that this postcard does *not* have such a wide border does not rule it out)

All of that said, Maxhistory said there is something suspicious about this particular pencil marking. Might it be in a color of lead or graphite which was not available until after the war? It looks like it might have a blue tint. Maybe Hitler didn't ordinarily use blue pencils?

I know there is reluctance to share the reasons for reservations like this.... because the forgers will latch on to it and make their forgeries even harder to detect in the future... better to leave them to trip unknowingly over the easy stuff, I guess the thinking goes.

Now that I go back and look at the photo as posted in this thread, I'm no expert at all, but looking at the signature, the 'Hitler' part of the signature looks like it has been traced. There is a tiny line down the middle of each stroke as if it has been drawn first, then the bold strokes put right over the tiny guide lines. Do you guys see that too? If these 'centering lines' were made by the tip of the sharp pencil, then each stroke would not be nearly so broad.

That said, I had a Hitler-autographed Hoffmann postcard (in pencil) myself back in the 80's, and sold it in the early 90's for $600 (I bought it in a stack of postcards real cheap where the autograph had gone completely unnoticed). I was honest in believing it was genuine, and so did the buyer I sold it too.... so two happy parties usually means all is well as far as the transaction goes. The buyer didn't ask for a lifetime guarantee, but I'd have had no problem giving him his money back if he was unhappy with it for any reason.

[max history]

Originally Posted by randy@treadways

The fact that it is signed in pencil should not by itself put it into the fake category. There are more than one photo of Hitler signing a postcard with a pencil...and I believe that there is one photo showing him with a whole stack of such postcards, again with a pencil in hand.
I believe that Hoffmann printed versions of some postcards with a wider border, specifically to give room for autographs. (again, the fact that this postcard does *not* have such a wide border does not rule it out)

All of that said, Maxhistory said there is something suspicious about this particular pencil marking. Might it be in a color of lead or graphite which was not available until after the war? It looks like it might have a blue tint. Maybe Hitler didn't ordinarily use blue pencils?

I know there is reluctance to share the reasons for reservations like this.... because the forgers will latch on to it and make their forgeries even harder to detect in the future... better to leave them to trip unknowingly over the easy stuff, I guess the thinking goes.

Now that I go back and look at the photo as posted in this thread, I'm no expert at all, but looking at the signature, the 'Hitler' part of the signature looks like it has been traced. There is a tiny line down the middle of each stroke as if it has been drawn first, then the bold strokes put right over the tiny guide lines. Do you guys see that too? If these 'centering lines' were made by the tip of the sharp pencil, then each stroke would not be nearly so broad.

That said, I had a Hitler-autographed Hoffmann postcard (in pencil) myself back in the 80's, and sold it in the early 90's for $600 (I bought it in a stack of postcards real cheap where the autograph had gone completely unnoticed). I was honest in believing it was genuine, and so did the buyer I sold it too.... so two happy parties usually means all is well as far as the transaction goes. The buyer didn't ask for a lifetime guarantee, but I'd have had no problem giving him his money back if he was unhappy with it for any reason.

Randy,
How do you know that the item being signed in the photo you quote is a postcard? I agree that Hitler signed postcards in pencil in the early years, most usually in the space for text on the address side. He stopped pencil signing autographs on postcards, menus, etc. in about 1933-1934 and would only sign in ink vetted images of himself that were the work of Heinrich Hoffmann. All to do with image presentation.
The late Hitler autograph expert, Charles Hamilton, confirmed this information as did the very experienced collector Stephen Bumball. I believe Hamilton even alludes to this in his famous autograph study. I discussed this very point with Dr. B.C. West during a visit I had at his North Carolina home in 1988. BC agreed with Hamilton. These men were true Hitler autograph experts in the real sense of the word. In my 40 years of collecting autographs, I have not yet seen a genuine pencil signed portrait postcard of Hitler after this period and that tends to confirm the experts' opinions for me. I agree that any autograph signed in pencil should not alone be reason to doubt it as there are plenty of authentic examples, but the knowledge of Hitler autographs and handwriting my contemporaries accrued over many years of studying Hitler, tends to contradict what you are saying.
Interesting point you make about tracing and that confirms my oft quoted opinion that the only way to truly determine the authenticity of any autograph is to physically examine it under laboratory conditions. Personally, I don't think it looks like a traced signature, but my opinion is not sacrosanct.
Regards,
Max.

[Obersalzberg]

Originally Posted by Jeremy

Erh actually, you did with your lame comments about signature variations and this dross:



oh, so this authenticates postcards supposedly signed in pencil by Hitler?? pfff

hardly convincing for why you like the sig... as burnout says, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I would hope that you might add something informative to the discussion if you have useful knowledge about Hitler signed material in relation to this particular postcard...

I guess N.Z has a most limited scope for hands on research etc.., so I forgive your ignorance.

[Jeremy]

just as I forgive your naivety and lack of ability to offer anything useful to the discussion

[Simon O.]

Ok, that's enough