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General Wehrmacht Awards Service Awards ("Flower War", Honor Cross, Long Service Awards, West Wall Medal), Honor Awards and medal/ribbon bars.

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Old 12-15-2007, 07:44 PM   #46
RobertE
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It turns out there has been considerable discussion on the WA forum regarding these badges, but in another discussion group (General Wehrmacht Awards). A number of members have the 100 marked 2nd class, identical to the one shown with no rope, so I think the possibilities of someone turning it into a properly marked one in a kitchen somewhere is less valid. Perhaps more interestingly, a member had this to say:
" I believe the first issue of the 1st Class Award for Eastern Nations has a flat back. This award is identified by sharp circular borders on the front, not the twisted ribbon used with the later zinc issues. The book on awards of the 3rd Reich by H. Doehle published in Dec. 1942 shows all these Ostvolk awards with sharp edges."
http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...hlight=ostvolk


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Old 12-15-2007, 10:32 PM   #47
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Interesting turn of events. Anyone have the Doehle book? How about any wartime catalog pics?
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Old 12-16-2007, 12:24 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Doering View Post
Interesting turn of events. Anyone have the Doehle book? How about any wartime catalog pics?
We're in luck, Don, Dietrich Riemer took the 1943 Doehle book, translated it, and reprinted and published it in English in 1995. The book had originally been published in Berlin and contains three pages on Ostvolk medals with color pictures. Dietrich sent me the following picture taken directly from this 1943, German made book - I think we can safely conclude that the rope is not required on one of these to make them authentic. Further, you could contact Dietrich and inquire about getting a copy (I think I will!) at d-riemer@comcast.net.

A pretty good discussion on these badges - thanks to everyone who contributed! Regards, Robert
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Old 12-16-2007, 12:59 AM   #49
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Good info. However, I'd be careful to take "drawings" as 100% gospel concerning specific details on badges. We have seen how deceptive these are from period manufacture catalogues.
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Old 12-16-2007, 10:57 AM   #50
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Here's more fuel to the discussion. The tips of the rays are partly deformed and the silver is worn off only in the center, showing what might be zinc. However the "bubbles", as shown in the close-ups, aren't the typical type associated with normal deterioration. The whole appearence in regards of the silver nuance doesn't feel right.

The ropes have been mentioned, but another detail seems to have been neglected i.e. the folding of the suspension ring can be found on both reverse and obverse. Also there doesn't appear to be any consistency in this feature, when comparing the different types.

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Peter
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Old 12-16-2007, 10:58 AM   #51
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close-ups
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Old 12-16-2007, 11:04 AM   #52
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Hi Peter,
Thanks for jumping in. Are we discussing the medal you've shown regarding the deterioration, or one from a previous post?

s/f Robert
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Old 12-16-2007, 11:30 AM   #53
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Opps, sorry if I wasn't clear enough . My comments were related to the medal shown by me. It's always difficult to judge a piece by images only and equally hard to explain it in English, but I believe my medal is a cast from an original zinc medal. These were normally silver washed and I can't see how it would retain all that shiny silver. The close-up of the reverse also shows a very strange texture pattern. Any thoughts?

cheers
Peter
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Old 12-16-2007, 11:43 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter J. View Post
Opps, sorry if I wasn't clear enough . My comments were related to the medal shown by me. It's always difficult to judge a piece by images only and equally hard to explain it in English, but I believe my medal is a cast from an original zinc medal. These were normally silver washed and I can't see how it would retain all that shiny silver. The close-up of the reverse also shows a very strange texture pattern. Any thoughts?

cheers
Peter
We can all speculate day and night over period finishing. The only true scientific measure would be something like a SEM test to determine paint type. Not exactly "worth" the money on these medals (unlike RKs for example).
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Old 12-16-2007, 12:31 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter J. View Post
Opps, sorry if I wasn't clear enough . My comments were related to the medal shown by me. It's always difficult to judge a piece by images only and equally hard to explain it in English, but I believe my medal is a cast from an original zinc medal. These were normally silver washed and I can't see how it would retain all that shiny silver. The close-up of the reverse also shows a very strange texture pattern. Any thoughts?

cheers
Peter
The medal feels "off" and I think you are right Peter, looks like a cast.......
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Old 12-16-2007, 12:45 PM   #56
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So that's it Darrell, we're down to SEM-tests now? I thought discussions built on what we (think) we know is the normal way to come up with some sort of consensus. Correct me if I'm wrong, but to my understanding these medals were normally made in zinc and grade-washed. To enhence my point of view, this LS 18 Heer is similar in construction and colour. This cross doesn't feature any kind of "bubbling", which is logical, taken into account these were made in iron (at least the early ones). It's non-magnetic though and I don't think anyone would consider it being original.

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Peter
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Old 12-16-2007, 12:58 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter J. View Post
So that's it Darrell, we're down to SEM-tests now? I thought discussions built on what we (think) we know is the normal way to come up with some sort of consensus. ......Peter
Peter, if you can determine from "look" alone that a finish is period, all the power to you. People "thought" the Rounder was original .... look where that ended up. You can determine much from the appearance, smell, feel and characteristics known to originals. However, at the end of the day sometimes you cannot be sure 100% if a finish is period without some type of scientific approach.
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Old 12-16-2007, 01:06 PM   #58
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Sorry Darrell, forgot the image

cheers
Peter
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Old 12-16-2007, 01:45 PM   #59
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Perhaps a sampling of weights and measurements would help to establish a baseline of acceptable awards.
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Old 12-16-2007, 03:00 PM   #60
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I started ahtread in the Photos Forum looking for more examples in wear. Already getting responses: http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...51#post2349251
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