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Old 06-15-2019, 01:43 PM   #16
Gary Cain
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Here is the EXACT wing type that is under consideration. A&C used different findings for different wings. The only known pin configuration for the Aircrew wings is this one.

This doesn't mean that the other wing is definitely fake, but it requires far more study to confirm or deny whether it is good.
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Old 06-15-2019, 03:49 PM   #17
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Are you saying that Angus & Coote used only ONE pin configuration for Air Crew wings but used other pin configurations for other wings types?
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Old 06-15-2019, 04:29 PM   #18
Mike Kenny
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The A&C AirCrew wing at the top of the thread has the typical A&C hardware and, as far as I can see, is an original.

The A&C AirCrew wing from the book may be original but the hinge is very definitely NOT typical of A&C wings. I don't have the book in front of me but I'd be looking very carefully for a hinge repair/replacement.

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Old 06-15-2019, 05:55 PM   #19
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Personally I would like closeups of the maker stamp....If part of the 'N' in SYDNEY is indeed missing, I would be curious if other known examples exist....Bodes
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Old 06-15-2019, 06:04 PM   #20
Gary Cain
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Hi Mike,

Yes, very typical of the A&C pins, the one pictured in the book is not replaced.
I have seen two other Aircrew wings that used the same pin as the one in the book.
One was from a 90th Squadron (3rd BG) airman, and the other from a 320th Squadron (90th BG) soldier.

Add to that the pin being copper, instead of white metal like every original I have ever seen, and that is another cause for concern. I overall like the wing, but I would need to physically inspect it nowadays.

The only reason why I even question the wing that started the thread is because of the multitude of fakes showing up now. 20 years ago it wasn't an issue, but now, it is.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Kenny View Post
The A&C AirCrew wing at the top of the thread has the typical A&C hardware and, as far as I can see, is an original.

The A&C AirCrew wing from the book may be original but the hinge is very definitely NOT typical of A&C wings. I don't have the book in front of me but I'd be looking very carefully for a hinge repair/replacement.

Regards
Mike
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Old 06-15-2019, 06:19 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Cain View Post
Hi Mike,

Yes, very typical of the A&C pins, the one pictured in the book is not replaced.
I have seen two other Aircrew wings that used the same pin as the one in the book.
One was from a 90th Squadron (3rd BG) airman, and the other from a 320th Squadron (90th BG) soldier.

Add to that the pin being copper, instead of white metal like every original I have ever seen, and that is another cause for concern. I overall like the wing, but I would need to physically inspect it nowadays.

The only reason why I even question the wing that started the thread is because of the multitude of fakes showing up now. 20 years ago it wasn't an issue, but now, it is.
So are you now saying that NO Angus & Coote wings used copper pins?
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Old 06-16-2019, 02:29 PM   #22
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I have not seen a biographical wing that did. Pretty much every fake I have ever seen though, does.
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So are you now saying that NO Angus & Coote wings used copper pins?
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Old 06-16-2019, 04:28 PM   #23
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Gary,

That last statement goes against pretty much everything I've seen wrt authentic A&C wing main pins - all are bronze/brass/copper coloured base-metal. Some are silver plated. Other local consumption period pins/badges - non military and not worth faking - also have the typical folded metal hinge and bronze/brass/copper coloured base-metal main pins (unless plated). I don't recall seeing a US-style hinge on any WW2 vintage A&C "local" item either.

Regards
Mike
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Old 06-16-2019, 09:14 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Kenny View Post
Gary,

That last statement goes against pretty much everything I've seen wrt authentic A&C wing main pins - all are bronze/brass/copper coloured base-metal. Some are silver plated. Other local consumption period pins/badges - non military and not worth faking - also have the typical folded metal hinge and bronze/brass/copper coloured base-metal main pins (unless plated). I don't recall seeing a US-style hinge on any WW2 vintage A&C "local" item either.

Regards
Mike
Thank you, my thoughts as well. Angus & Coote, Wallace Bishop, and K.G. Luke all used cooper or more likely brass pins. Photographs are shown of the first two mentioned above in Jon Maguire's book.
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Old 06-17-2019, 09:07 PM   #25
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I think Mike is spot on. There are some tells in these wings that can be used to differentiate between the newer fakes and the older vintage A&C wings.


There are some nice threads on the USMF forum that talk about some of these tells.


http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/foru...and%20%20coote


Because pins can be replaced/repaired, I have always focused on the various die-faults, hallmark fonts, and other tells then just the hardware. Not everyone has to agree, but I have found that works pretty well for differentiating the good from the bad.


Here are some of the tells in a A&C Navigator wing (which is used as the same base for some of the other ratings (bombardier, AC, etc)


http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/foru...2Band+%2Bcoote



One thing about these wings in the OP, is that if you look very carefully JUST between the two top legs of the "N", you will see a small blip. That is one of the characteristic die flaws that do not appear in the reproductions.
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