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Police NCO Sleeve Eagles
Old 08-22-2008, 12:45 AM   #1
W.Unland
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Default Police NCO Sleeve Eagles

Hello,

To replace my defunct earlier thread, I am contributing this discussion of enlisted police sleeve eagles. To many this will be repetative, and for that I apologize, but as eagles are my primary interest I like to keep things as up to date as I can. All of the eagles shown are from my collection, and are to the best of my knowledge original to the period.

To begin with, sleeve eagles were specified for wear on the left sleeve of all police uniforms with the consolidated uniform regulations of 1936. These initial regulations specified that the sleeve eagles for NCO's were to be produced in branch colors, with city/district names embroidered above the eagle for all branches except the Wasserschutzpolizei. These "named" pre-war eagles were always embroidered on an oval background, with the eagle sitting low on the oval. NOT in the middle.

Exactly how these insignia were produced is not known. Some examples, such as those shown here are exact copies of each other, while some other patterns are very close but each example is ever so slightly different. I believe that pantographic reproduction was done using a series of connected embroidery machines. A machine operator would trace a standard pattern, or peviously produced eagle, using a pantograph which would copy the traced design to however many machines that were connected in series. In this way all eagles made by the same operator, at the same time will be exact copies of each other, whereas a different operator's output would be a bit different. Clearly some eagles were made one off by hand ,machine operators.

In 1941, after the war was in full swing, the names were ordered removed from the sleeve eagles for security reasons. After that time eagles were produced without names but still on oval background material. Later, when war materials became more scarce, the eagles were embroidered on smaller "cut out" backgrounds to conserve cloth.

This photo shows three Gendarmerie eagles of the same pattern and manufacturer, but produced during the three periods mentioned. The design stays the same but the backing material changes from high quality wool to ersatz wool with scrap inclusions, and finally "cut out" form.
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Last edited by W.Unland; 08-22-2008 at 05:10 AM.
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Old 08-22-2008, 12:51 AM   #2
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Very early eagles have some strange design characteristics while later eagles seem to be fairly standardized. It seems that when the regulations were formulated no specific designs were supplied and makers were left to interpret the standards as best they could. This resulted in some rather bizarre looking eagles. This photo shows one of the earliest designs. The lack of details in the head, "coke bottle" shape, and use of two different styles of leaves in the wreath are unique to this early design.

Early eagles also tend to have parallel "ribbons" at the bottom of the wreath as opposed to the "X" seen on later versions.
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Old 08-22-2008, 12:57 AM   #3
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The Scutzpolizei, or "protective police" was the largest police branch and wore green as their branch color. The SchPo were the civil police in large cities, and also made up the barracksed riot police and armored police units.

Here is an example of the early pre-war "named" Schutzpolizei sleeve eagle. Note that it is the same pattern and manufacturer as the three Gendarmerie eagles shown above:
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Old 08-22-2008, 12:59 AM   #4
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Here is a later oval form eagle worn without name, dating it post 1941. Note that this eagle has been embroidered in the center of the oval, so it is not a "blank" that was produced to have the name added later. Also note the obvious traces of "zig zag" stitching with which this eagle was at one time attached to a tunic.:
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Old 08-22-2008, 01:02 AM   #5
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Lastly, here is a later war "cut" SchuPo eagle:
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Old 08-22-2008, 01:04 AM   #6
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A summer tunic in "mottled" cotton was authorized for wear by all branches of the police and special eagles were also prepared for use on these tunics. Here is an example of a SchPo eagle embroidered on this "mottled" green/orange cotton.
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Eagles
Old 02-18-2013, 08:24 AM   #7
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Default Eagles

My humble contribution. I am new here...



After reading this thread I have seen the theory that by comparing eagles we could come up with manufacturers?

I agree with this idea. In particular I have noticed that the Speyer eagles are not as "orange" as others, or seem to fade quicker?

Also, anything from Schweinfurt has that VERY LARGE script that does not look like the other eagles?

One other thing. After seeing this thread I am VERY envious of those who have Austrian eagles! I have wanted one for a long time! In particular Klagenfurt, or Vienna! Though I collect mostly Gendarmerie eagles, I would pick up Austrian eagles in any color!

Just some thoughts!
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:31 AM   #8
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Martinsuper Nice collectoin however the Trier is a repro from what I can see
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Old 02-28-2013, 04:52 PM   #9
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Regarding an attempt to identify eagle manufacturers, "Germanpolice" and I attempted to categorize these things a few years ago and found it nearly impossible to identify any manufacturers by name. Indeed you can ID types or pattern BUT actually putting a name to them is impossible.

The observations you make are valid, but that is about as far as you can go.
I have identified about 50 different "types" which represent different makers, but who those makers were is unknown.

Unlike SS insignia for instance with a limited number of authorized makers, police insignia were made everywhere. Some by big companies others small local firms. The names were sometimes factory applied and sometimes applied by local tailors. You can find 3 or 4 different script types on the same pattern of eagle.

So, although I applaud your though, having tried to do it already I can report it is an impossible task. You can classify types, but identifying makers is just not possible.

The Speyer type eagles have a bad orange dye that oxidizes more than other makers. That is why they all fade, some times to white.

And I unfortunately agree that the first eagle in the display looks like a know reproduction.

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W.Unland
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Trier Eagle
Old 03-08-2013, 09:07 AM   #10
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Default Trier Eagle

Gentlemen,

Thanks for the information!

Unlike many, I usually don't try to dump my bad product on others. I guess I will just leave the Trier eagle where it is! But good to know!

Also, after reading this entire post I find that the Armored Eagle with the white Swastika is also a known fake. I had three well known and respected dealers look at it for me and all gave it the ok.

SO MUCH FOR THAT!

I also have noticed that my Late War Eagle is Army Green and technically, not police. I will hang on to it, but its going into a different case.

Bill, I thank you for the explanations here. With this hobby we must always learn! One thing I will do is save your photos to my phone so I have a mobile reference!

You just picked up some VERY nice eagles at SOS. Can you give us some high resolution front and backs of those with a few words on each?

Also, the water police summer weight eagle. Did you pick that up from Walt Dudgeon? I saw them but thought the price was too high. Now I am maybe regretting that thought!

I want a white traffic eagle, but the three at SOS I found all looked fake. In particular the stitching looked wrong to me AND they were not a "flat" stitch but instead had a great deal of height between the top of the stitch and the material. Can you speak to that?

Regards to all, and thanks for the help and kind words.

-Martin Super
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Old 03-08-2013, 09:39 AM   #11
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Martin,

Below is a link to a thread you may find interesting if you have not already seen it. It's discusses the eagles such as the Wien you picked up at the SOS. And yes, the white swastika examples are known fake...so much for dealer opinions, think it would best to ask police collector opinions if available but that is not always the case at shows.

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ht=wien&page=2

It was Doug that picked up all those eagles at the SOS, it seems like that maybe confused in your post above.

Chances are you likely saw fake traffic police sleeve eagle/wreaths as the real examples are rather scarce. Would you have pics of what you seen? Stitching can be different due to the complications of a light weight backing materials.

Would you mind posting a picture of your Schupo example that starts with 'Bad' that one maybe a discussion item.

Thanks,

Dave
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Old 11-01-2013, 07:59 PM   #12
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Gendarmerie..

Last edited by walex; 11-01-2013 at 08:13 PM. Reason: error
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Old 11-02-2013, 07:58 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walex View Post
Gendarmerie..

No... no... no... green eagles are not Gendarmerie but are Municipal Schutzpolizei.
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