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Luftwaffe Table Standarte
Old 08-14-2019, 08:26 PM   #1
Bowietx
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Default Luftwaffe Table Standarte

I learned a lot from the General Der Flieger tab discussion and have found a new item of interest. In this go round I would like to learn about what is referred to as a table standard. I have found a thread here from 2011, I this thread it is referred to as a miniature flag that was perhaps a souvenir.

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ffe+table+flag

On another site it is referred to as a table standarte that was used to identify a high ranking individual attending a party etc.

Here are some pics of a table standarte listed on a site for sale. What are the thoughts on the purpose of these and what should be looked at to determine authenticity?











Appreciate your thoughts and insights!!
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Previously on the WAF ...
Old 08-15-2019, 10:10 AM   #2
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Default Previously on the WAF ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowietx View Post
... I would like to learn about what is referred
to as a table standard. ... what should be looked
at to determine authenticity? Appreciate your
thoughts and insights!!
Hello Bowietx:
IMO your posted yellow example appears suspect.
It is screen printed in the wrong direction - eagle
should be on the (to left) backside of the flag. And
the color should be better registererd, and done on
a less close weave material. Fringe attachment also
appears to be sewn using a modern machine stitch.

OFW
(below) WW2 example from 2011 WAF t= 561449.
Listed for sale as item #069f2 - Luftwaffe "Table" flag .
"This flag features a wreathed Iron Cross in "Standart"
form on one side and the Luftwaffe stylized eagle in
"standart" form on the other. This printed mini measures
about 5 1/2 x 5 1/2. It is attached to a small pole that
measures about 14 inches. There is no pole top." ...$225

(below-2) Correct direction of the eagle backside (to left).
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Old 08-15-2019, 07:37 PM   #3
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Oldflagswanted,

Thank you for the insights, it does reflect an eagle that is pointed in the opposite direction of the one that appears in the 2011 thread and the stitching appears to b done in a different pattern. The eagle's mouth is also open compared to the other post.

Is there another reference document perhaps for flags of this type? The purpose seems to be less than clear. They appear decorative, but is there a solid reference for their historical origins?

Also, on the topic of stitching, is there a period reference for the stitching techniques used in Germany on items like this?

Not interested in purchasing the one that I posted pictures of, just want to learn about their origin and understand their construction.

Thank you in advance!!
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Old 08-16-2019, 03:11 AM   #4
Rick C
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Old Flags ~

Will's trying to learn about these because I sent him down one from my collection that he was interested in. Photos below. It reflects tthe hoist side being reversed to what you describe...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Luft 1.jpg (156.6 KB, 145 views)
File Type: jpg Luft 2.jpg (180.7 KB, 146 views)
File Type: jpg Luft 3.jpg (244.1 KB, 146 views)
File Type: jpg Luft 4.jpg (231.2 KB, 147 views)
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Old 08-19-2019, 08:48 PM   #5
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Here is a picture for comparison. Would be very interested in hearing your opinions regarding the side of the flag that the hoist is on , the materials and construction.

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Old 08-19-2019, 08:49 PM   #6
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Mods,

Please move to the flags forum.
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How Luft flags pole mount ???
Old 08-21-2019, 04:52 PM   #7
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Default How Luft flags pole mount ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowietx View Post
... interested in hearing your opinions regarding
the side of the flag that the hoist is on , ...
The actual Luft flags were pole mounted
with the eagle on the back side, and the
iron cross on the front side. To be correct
a smaller table size flag should pole attach
with eagle back to left, ic side to the right.
OFW
(below-1) Front, note pole wrap on left.
(below-2) Back, note pole wrap on right.

Attached Images
File Type: jpg lw-yellow-icross-front.jpg (102.9 KB, 108 views)
File Type: jpg lw-yellow-eagle-back.jpg (106.5 KB, 106 views)
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Old 08-22-2019, 03:13 AM   #8
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Old Flags,

I fully accept your observations and premise pertaining to the front & back of the Luftwaffe standarte being as you’ve described. That said, I’m wondering if mere table decorations were allotted the attention to detail that real flags were wherein, rather than a sleeve on their hoist side there was nothing but the sewing of some fringe (or lack thereof) to determine the decoration’s hoist end.

We’re not talking an embroidered Führer Standard here but table decorations after all. Might quality control have slipped a tad, now and then, and the fringe occasionally get attached to the wrong sides?

Shouldn’t the silkscreen/imagery & material be the determining factor in analysis ~ eagles/wreaths matching accepted period table flags?

Just wondering where I have a dog in this hunt.
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Old 08-22-2019, 06:27 AM   #9
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,
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collectible quality criteria ???
Old 08-22-2019, 11:32 AM   #10
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Default collectible quality criteria ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick C View Post
Old Flags,
.. I’m wondering if mere table decorations were
allotted the attention to detail that real flags were ...
Might quality control have slipped a tad, now and
then, and the fringe occasionally get attached to the
wrong sides? Shouldn’t the silkscreen/imagery &
material be the determining factor in analysis ~
eagles/wreaths matching accepted period table flags?
Rick:
Good points indeed. However, I suspect the intent
of these small table top flags was more than just
for ephemeral display decor. But rather that they
were military service commemorations, and as
such they were held to a higher quality level. So I
am suspect of originality when I see poor screen
print color registration, fringe & pole mounted on
the wrong sides, etc. I could be mistaken, but to
each their own regarding collectible quality criteria.
......OFW


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File Type: jpg luft-ttb-compare-x.jpg (201.3 KB, 92 views)

Last edited by oldflagswanted; 08-22-2019 at 11:50 AM.
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Old 08-25-2019, 06:03 PM   #11
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Old Flags,


Thank you for the information and insights, all of which helps inform both the purpose and construction of these flags. You stated that the purpose was commemorative. Would these have been provided at the end of ones service or as recognition at formal functions etc?

Are there other instances of threads or discussions on these items? I have not found them in the limited library of regerences that I have.
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Old 09-05-2019, 03:28 AM   #12
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not to beat a dead horse, but...

The subject flag was posted (2013) by someone called deltaspecialforce:

http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/art-de...banner-371907/

Someone called Horst who states “Nice original LW table pennant - looks like a brown base which donates Nachrichten Abt, (Signals unit) - looks a little washed out but still a nice find.” He then posts a photo of one of his Luftwaffe table flags (below from the War Relics thread).

Not the best of photos but it appears to me the hoist end is to the left/fringe to the right which, like the subject table flag, is opposite what OFW said. Subsequently, Bob Lyons appeared to agrees with Horst back in 2013.


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File Type: jpg unknown.jpg (28.6 KB, 49 views)
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Old 09-18-2019, 03:46 AM   #13
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https://www.germanmilitaria.com/Luftwaffe/photos/L005180.html

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File Type: jpg 02.jpg (157.8 KB, 21 views)
File Type: jpg 03.jpg (151.7 KB, 20 views)
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