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Old 06-11-2008, 12:43 PM   #226
Jean-Loup
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Please guys, if you want to discuse the ethics of keeping items, do it on an other thread not this one. I dont want this thread to turn into one of "those". Here are a couple of things I would like to point out, and then I would like this topic to be closed on this thread:

-First, and very importantly, although I completely understand that it would be nice to leave the body untouched; you may miss vital information by not taking things away and carefully analysing them, for example you could miss a set of initials or a name on a helmet liner. There are also simple practical considerations. For example in this case Mr Hauser had to fit 14 bodies in the trunk of his car, so space was scarce.

-Secondly, for me, these objects are precious historical relics. Burying them in the ground isnt doing anybody a favor. Although I understand that it may be unethical that me, a simple person get to keep them, remember that: I found the grave, I live in the village where the grave was found, and apparently I am the person on this planet who cares most about the history of the grave... So it only seems logical that I should be their caretaker.

-Finaly, soldiers are not normaly buried with helmets or equipements. If you find a soldier buried with a helmet, it normaly means that he was buried by enemies (or by nature). They didnt leave the helmet on to honnor him, they left it on because they considered the entire body as trash, and didnt want to touch it, except to steal valuables.

There are several other points that I know about, but that I am not going to talk about here.
Just trust me guys, I am not some grave robber trying to earn money by stealing from dead bodies. I am a person highly interested in the stories of these soldiers, and working hard to make their stories be known and be preserved. Preserving the items goes with that, IMO. If you dont agree with me, that is fine, but please dont turn this thread into a battleground.

JL

Last edited by Jean-Loup; 06-12-2008 at 08:16 AM.
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Old 06-20-2008, 05:53 PM   #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean-Loup View Post
This is the same object after beeing cleaned. It is sad to think that whoever was wearing this, and especialy whoever gave this to the soldier, maybe a girlfriend, was probably hoping it would keep him out of harms way. Instead, he was buried with it in an unmarked grave for 62 years.
My mother commented to me that this was surely being worn by a Polish soldier, not a German. This is very probable as about half the "Germans" fighting at Villeneuve were actualy Polish, and the Polish are mostly catholic. Maybe this was being worn by that Polish soldier who was shot in the back by his officer.

Can also be from catholic from silesia or bavaria. Christopherus?
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Old 06-25-2008, 09:40 AM   #228
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My Father drove a Tank retreiver all over France. I have many photos. He is now 87 years old! Here is his story if you like. http://www.dse.nl/~vrzaob/wc52/pacific.html Scroll down to the link about my Father, Joe.
Sal
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Old 08-18-2008, 04:36 AM   #229
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Jean-Loup any new news? I'm interested!

I just saw the exhumanition on youtube, for more
interested people:

exhumanition of the 14 MIA German Soldiers
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Old 08-31-2008, 06:40 AM   #230
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Body number 5 has been identified as Franz G, a 34 year old Obergefreiter from Sudetenland. His son sent me pictures of him, and has come to Villeneuve to see the mass grave. (for all the details, go to this thread dedicated to Franz G: http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=308676 )
On the photo of Franz, the pistol holster and wound badge that we found in the grave are clearly visible. The cause of death: an artillery shell, is also explained in the letter that the familly received in 1944:

"Miss Sophi G

I am fulfiling the sad duty of informing you of the heros death of your husband Franz G During the battle at Villeneuve-Loubet in the region of Nice on August 26th 1944, your husband fell for our fatherland, killed by a direct hit from a shell, death occured on the spot. Your husband Franz G was a zealous soldier, a model komerad, effective leader, who we had learned to treasure, and who's memmory we hold with sadness and honnor.
I would like to tell you and your loved ones, in the name of all the komerads in the unit, about what a great loss this is, and about our sincere condolences. Truely yours.

E.H. Oberleutnant und Kompaniefüher"
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File Type: jpg zzerase5.jpg (143.5 KB, 1343 views)

Last edited by Jean-Loup; 08-31-2008 at 05:35 PM.
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Old 08-31-2008, 06:42 AM   #231
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Here is the son of Franz G at the site of the grave, along with his wife.
Franz's sons biggest regret is that his mother, who died in 2000, was not able to see hear that her husband had been found after 62 years.
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Old 08-31-2008, 06:44 AM   #232
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Here Franz's son is meeting some Villeneuve locals, along with the man of Villeneuve who helped me the most during my search for the grave.

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Old 08-31-2008, 06:47 AM   #233
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Franz G in 1944, and some of his items found in 2006.
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Old 08-31-2008, 06:48 AM   #234
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Jean Loop , a very human story and one which has brought closure for one family - well done to all involved in bring this about .
Thank you for this very pleasing update and for your willingness to share this with us.

Thank you.
Jim S.
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Old 08-31-2008, 09:03 AM   #235
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Jean Loop - Thanks for the follow up post on showing a family's closure.
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Somebody, after all, had to make a start. What we wrote and said is also believed by many others. They just don't dare express themselves as we did. Quote - Sophie Scholl - White Rose resistance group
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Old 10-04-2008, 06:41 PM   #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean-Loup View Post
Franz G in 1944, and some of his items found in 2006.
WOW!! I am blown away. I appreciate all that you have done for these families. You have done something that no one has been able to do for 64 years for at least one family... provide closure.

You are a hero.

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Looking for documents/items pertaining to Warsaw 1944 Uprising
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Old 11-03-2008, 03:03 PM   #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean-Loup View Post
Finaly, n°2 had mysterious little glass tubes in his pocket as well. We brocke one by accident, and it contained some kind of alcohol or ether or something. Does anyone know what this is? Maybe some medical equipment, maybe some kind of drug?
The archeologist wanted to keep these for himself, so took great care of them, and put them on a box so as not to loose them. Then somebody else took the box away, and the tubes have not been heard of since.
These seem to be medicaments called "Riechmittel". Used after gas attack in case of nasal cavity irritation/vexation. Ampoule was to be broken and the contain inhaled. It contained a mixture of chloroform, amoniak and ether. These were stored in small boxes, cardboard or metal.
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Old 11-03-2008, 04:38 PM   #238
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Very nice! Keep up the great work!
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Old 11-04-2008, 08:17 AM   #239
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Hello, Im new here. This topic is great . I was most interested by your
very well oral history based description of the FSSF attack on Villeneuve Loubet.
"We made it to the Chateau and to the top. I was right out of the storybooks.
My men were putting dead Germans up on the parapets, and shooting off of
the parapets just like the movies. They were actually propping the dead men up to make the Germans think we had a big force..."
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Old 11-04-2008, 12:49 PM   #240
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Hello Dogface, and welcome to this exellent forum

I recognise that description of Capt Piette, who led the attack on Villeneuve. Unfortunately he died a few months before I started doing my interviews... The probleme with his description is that there were no KIA Germans in the castle... so his memory must have been playing tricks on him...
I saw you on "mail call" of the 517th. I have also been interviewing these men to reconstruct what happened in other villages beside Nice.

JL
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