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John Burnett Helmet Forum One of the most distinguishing characteristics of the German fighting force was their Stahlhelm.

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Old 12-07-2019, 09:47 PM   #31
panzer1432
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As a dealer I am often shocked that collectors want more then I do, look at the estand! There are some great dealers and some bad ones just as it is in any group of people.

Do to the crap economy and that I often bought from collectors and dealers I no longer do this for a living. But some of you seem to think dealers make a fortune on every piece. The more expensive the piece, in general, the smaller percentage I made. You need to buy inventory someplace!
Bob
I agree Bob. I purchase from 3 or 4 trusted dealers. I don't have any problem with them making a profit. No worries, then they keep the top shelf helmets coming. If it's a helmet that fits into my my collection and compliments the others, I'll buy it !

Collecting demands a commitment to build a game plan.

I almost bought from you a couple times, you had good stuff !

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Old 12-07-2019, 11:08 PM   #32
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As a dealer I am often shocked that collectors want more then I do, look at the estand! There are some great dealers and some bad ones just as it is in any group of people.

Do to the crap economy and that I often bought from collectors and dealers I no longer do this for a living. But some of you seem to think dealers make a fortune on every piece. The more expensive the piece, in general, the smaller percentage I made. You need to buy inventory someplace!
Bob
True, but dealers purchase at wholesale not retail.
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Old 12-07-2019, 11:16 PM   #33
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Not a totally accurate statement, I was a full time dealer for over 15 years. I bought a lot at retail!! Even when buying from veterans or families, with the Internet these days any kind of real spread is extremely difficult. I used to depend on quantity and I even sold a LOT to European dealers. My prices are reflected on what I paid and how much I like the item and how much I need money.
There are many different business plans out there, the guys who needed to make big spreads did very little business. Even so, there are a lot of behind the scene expenses also.
There is no real "wholesale" market in antiques and collectibles. You might get lucky on occasion but there is nothing consistent. Tell me where it is and I will be happy to buy.
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Old 12-07-2019, 11:25 PM   #34
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I am pretty sure when Doug Buhler sold his collection no dealer paid what he paid. I am pretty sure he lost a ton of money. To him it probably did not matter since he had a lot of money to begin with but to the salt of the earth kind of person it is a big deal.
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Old 12-07-2019, 11:34 PM   #35
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I am pretty sure when Doug Buhler sold his collection no dealer paid what he paid. I am pretty sure he lost a ton of money. To him it probably did not matter since he had a lot of money to begin with but to the salt of the earth kind of person it is a big deal.
Still, consistent with what I said, this is not a reliable source. You may get lucky and get great deals on occasion but there is no militaria grocery store to go to so a dealer can buy inventory. It takes a lot of plane tripe, driving and relationships to consistently acquire inventory which adds to your cost.
Go look at the estand and see how many collectors want top retail prices for thier "stuff".
Bob
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Old 12-07-2019, 11:45 PM   #36
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Pure economics dealers purchase at wholesale sell at retail otherwise they would not be in business.
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Old 12-08-2019, 12:16 AM   #37
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Another consideration is SS SD helmets are not truly all that rare . Scarce but not rare. I pick up a few out of the woodwork every year.
I would love to hear how you find a couple per year? I have been seriously helmet collecting for 8 years and have yet to find even one.

Jordan
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Old 12-08-2019, 12:28 AM   #38
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Maybe you should try being a dealer and you might understand better.
Bob
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Old 12-08-2019, 01:32 AM   #39
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Pure economics dealers purchase at wholesale sell at retail otherwise they would not be in business.
I agree with you. I have personally witnessed on several occasions a major dealer approach collectors who were selling their helmet collections on late Saturday or Sunday morning at the SOS and basically the dealer buying the collector's remaining helmets as a lot at what would be considered wholesale prices. Same thing when a collector passed away and his collection was bought at a significant discount from the then market price. I even heard the major dealer explain to a helmet collector that he ran a business and he was "assuming that the helmet collector was aware of how things work" in that the dealer would only be buying at wholesale prices in order for him to build in a profit in order to stay in business. That is the way it is, plain and simple. You want to discuss the size of the margin of profit, that is one thing, but to say that a dealer adds little or no margin is ridiculous if that dealer is to stay in business.

Thankfully, the internet has spread knowlege and opportunity to the collectors when it comes time to move their collections. Thankfully, if a collector has the patience and the luxury of time, dealers are not required to be part of the equation anymore when it comes time for the collector to sell his collection. How many times have dealers bent over the veteran in motel buys or bent over the widow of a veteran or the widow of a collector and offered them a few cents on the dollar for their items, only to turn around and sell the items for a premium above market price? Waaaay too many times to count. And that is a fact. Perhaps dealers and former dealers may look at those days with nostalgia, but I am personally glad that those days are generally over, for the benefit of the average collector, veteran and widow.
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Old 12-08-2019, 02:10 AM   #40
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I would love to hear how you find a couple per year? I have been seriously helmet collecting for 8 years and have yet to find even one.

Jordan
I work the area very hard . Still lots out there.
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Old 12-08-2019, 03:59 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by Vito Patel View Post
I am pretty sure when Doug Buhler sold his collection no dealer paid what he paid. I am pretty sure he lost a ton of money. To him it probably did not matter since he had a lot of money to begin with but to the salt of the earth kind of person it is a big deal.


2nd that !
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Old 12-08-2019, 04:09 AM   #42
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I agree with you. I have personally witnessed on several occasions a major dealer approach collectors who were selling their helmet collections on late Saturday or Sunday morning at the SOS and basically the dealer buying the collector's remaining helmets as a lot at what would be considered wholesale prices. Same thing when a collector passed away and his collection was bought at a significant discount from the then market price. I even heard the major dealer explain to a helmet collector that he ran a business and he was "assuming that the helmet collector was aware of how things work" in that the dealer would only be buying at wholesale prices in order for him to build in a profit in order to stay in business. That is the way it is, plain and simple. You want to discuss the size of the margin of profit, that is one thing, but to say that a dealer adds little or no margin is ridiculous if that dealer is to stay in business.

Thankfully, the internet has spread knowlege and opportunity to the collectors when it comes time to move their collections. Thankfully, if a collector has the patience and the luxury of time, dealers are not required to be part of the equation anymore when it comes time for the collector to sell his collection. How many times have dealers bent over the veteran in motel buys or bent over the widow of a veteran or the widow of a collector and offered them a few cents on the dollar for their items, only to turn around and sell the items for a premium above market price? Waaaay too many times to count. And that is a fact. Perhaps dealers and former dealers may look at those days with nostalgia, but I am personally glad that those days are generally over, for the benefit of the average collector, veteran and widow.

well said - It's a very true statement . I think I would only use a dealer now if I desperately needed an item to finish or enhance the collection. I think Bob is one in a million and represents the better side of dealers. However, with the expansion of the internet it's a world wide market. When I use to seriously collect in the 80's it was much more closed and you had to hunt , which in itself was actually fun. But now we have information at our finger tips. I suspect the dealers will either price themselves out of existence or they will take more of a realistic look at their pricing if they want constant turn over and cash flow. Of course, there will always be a certain person with loads of money willing to pay whatever , but they are few and far between and not enough to make a living !
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Old 12-08-2019, 10:41 AM   #43
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I work the area very hard . Still lots out there.
WOW
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Old 12-08-2019, 11:22 AM   #44
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I work the area very hard . Still lots out there.
I am not trying call your bluff. I really want to know.

Jordan
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Old 12-08-2019, 11:48 AM   #45
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I am not trying call your bluff. I really want to know.

Jordan


Think we would all like to know LOL
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