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Bundesrepublik Deutschland, 1949-Present From West Germany through to the modern reunified German Republic.

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Old 11-17-2014, 03:51 PM   #61
Proud Kraut
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Thank you very much for posting this, Gordon! Well, the author seemed to mix up something with the Army Schools, I'm afraid.

First of all: Lehrtruppenteile "L" does mean, that "Lehrverbände" (Demonstration Units) do wear the same insignia with "L" instead of the "S".

There already were no "Truppenschulen" in 1994, these were all designated "Schulen des Heeres". So this patch doesn't really makes sence, very interesting though.
I asked some other collectors regarding that white bordered School patch and they also believe that it was a manufacturer's error based on this specific ZDv 37/10 issue. Until today we haven't found any evidence of the wear of this patch. But, nothing is impossible.

Lars

P.S. Could you post the book's titel or a picture of the book's cover?
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Old 11-17-2014, 04:19 PM   #62
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Hi,

I must say, that I cannot find, at any time, a white border. It could/must be an error in the production for a silver border (white with black threads) for an "Offizierschule", "Unteroffizierschule" or "Taktikzentrum des Heeres".


Hi Proud Kraut,

Quote:
There already were no "Truppenschulen" in 1994, these were all designated "Schulen des Heeres"
Up to the ZDv 37/10 from 2003 you can find the differentiation between "Schulen des Heeres" and "Truppenschulen".

Uwe
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Old 11-17-2014, 05:00 PM   #63
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Hi Uwe,

may I ask: what do mean with " I cannot find, at any time, a white border" ? The white bordered patch was depicted in the 1972's ZDv 37/10 and was produced, as I have posted in detail before.

Concerning the Truppenschule und Heeresschule: My mistake! Heeresschule in this case stands for Offizierschule and Unteroffizierschule des Heeres.
"Truppenschulen" of course for the different branches' schools.

Regards

Lars
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Old 11-17-2014, 08:32 PM   #64
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Hi Lars,

I mean it as I wrote it. The badge had never changed in the colours.

The first pictures I found in small books from 1963, for Heeresoffizierschulen I-III.
Always with the white and black border, representing the colour silver.

You can see here in the thread two different descriptions for the badge with the white border.
In Post 52 Heeresoffizierschulen, in Post 60 Truppenschulen.
And both pictures are wrong.
In the next ZDv 37/10 from 1982 you can find the correct colour for the "Schulen des Heeres", white and black, representing silver.

Uwe
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Old 11-18-2014, 07:51 AM   #65
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I don't know, how to explain it in a better way (at least in English). Once again, the facts:

1. The 1972's ZDv 37/10 shows the white bordered School patch (by mistake?), designated as "Heeresoffizierschulen". I have posted a copy of this page in post # 52.

2. The previous and following 37/10s show the Heeresoffizierschulen patch with white/black border, exact the same style it is in use today.

3. The white border patch was made by official manufacturers and show all signs of vintage patches, made in this timeframe (1970's).

4. Today this patch is offered as "Music School" patch. Obviously because of the white border and - so far so good - without any evidence. We already found out that there never was any Heeresmusikschule. Members of the Ausbildungsmusikkorps are wearing the red bordered patch of "Zentrale Militärische Dienststellen" what absolutely makes sence.

Now my question: Does anybody has any evidence, that the white bordered School patch was worn by members of the HOS/OSH at that time? It was made, it was available and it was depicted in the ZDv 37/10 so MY GUESS is, that it was worn as well.
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Old 11-18-2014, 09:51 AM   #66
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Proud Kraut,

The cover of the Der Reibert as requested.

Regards,

Gordon
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File Type: jpg DSCF4656.jpg (143.9 KB, 107 views)
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Old 11-18-2014, 10:19 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedytop View Post
Hi Lars,

And both pictures are wrong.

Uwe
100% agreed, Uwe! Now we have to find out, if the patch, althought it was never depicted with intent, was worn anyway. I'm sure an OSH member's uniform with white bordered patch will pop up some day...

@Gordon: Thanks for posting the cover. I will dig through my Reiberts as well again.
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Old 11-18-2014, 11:18 AM   #68
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Hi Lars,

it could be, that a "Bastler" combine a uniform with this wrong "Verbandsabzeichen" with the white border, but that is like a degradation, from silver to white.

See Wikipedia:
"... die ... Schulen waren Mutterhaus des Führernachwuchses des Heeres und gewissermaßen „höchste“ Ausbildungsstätte im Heer, daher eine silberne Kordel um die besondere Stellung zu verdeutlichen" > "... therefore a silver cord to clarify the special position"



Uwe
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Old 11-18-2014, 12:42 PM   #69
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Going through my Reiberts I have learned that the patch with the white border and the patch with the white/black (silver) border were depicted alternately in different issues from the late 1970's on. Seems that nobody cared too much about this.



Back to the patches. Some woven, machine embroidered, and hand embroidered variants of the OSH and the Lehrtruppe ("L") for your interest:



Some more patches with crossed swords and silver border (not to forget the Division's patches!):

TL: Former Heeresamt (Army Office), now Amt für Heeresentwicklung
TR: Heeresunterstützungskommando (obsolete)
BL: Stammdienststelle des Heeres (obsolete), now BAPersBw
BR: Logistikzentrum des Heeres (obsolete)

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Old 11-18-2014, 01:41 PM   #70
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Jens,

Interesting comparison of the different Verbandsabzeichen. Also goes to show that having more than one Der Reibert or Taschenbuch is a good idea.

Regards,

Gordon
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Old 03-01-2015, 11:31 AM   #71
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The first one (in my hands) of a series of new shoulder sleeve insignia for the dress uniform (Dienstanzug). The white bordered patch of the Kommando Territoriale Aufgaben der Bundeswehr (Federal Armed Forces’ Territorial Command), a sub-command of the Streitkräftebasis.



Some more informations about the command (unfortunately only in German language yet).

http://www.kommando.streitkraeftebas...vyHZUBAAciSN3/
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Old 03-02-2015, 08:15 AM   #72
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A rare "not for sale" Item.
A Sticker used on Files of the
"Kommando Heer" in Strausberg.
So the Army Command ( Ground Forces).
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Old 03-02-2015, 12:33 PM   #73
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In addition to Nico's post: Machine woven and hand embroidered patch of the Army Command (Kommando Heer).

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Old 03-02-2015, 01:05 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Proud Kraut View Post
In addition to Nico's post: Machine woven and hand embroidered patch of the Army Command (Kommando Heer).

Nice,
next week I get at least a bunch of the woven ones.
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Old 03-02-2015, 03:16 PM   #75
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I need the dress version.

Marc
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