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Bundesrepublik Deutschland, 1949-Present From West Germany through to the modern reunified German Republic.

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Old 09-27-2009, 02:25 PM   #61
Gordon Craig
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TJ,

It took me a while to figure out exactly which foto you were refering to when you asked about the MG42 drum mag. It shouldn't have but I must be slow these days! Looking at the three guys on the left end (as viewed by you) you are looking at the crew for the MG 42. Appears they followed the same pattern as in WWII. The gunner wears a pistol and the two man crew carries the ammo and their rifles. You can see the ammo cans on the ground in front of them as well as a helmet. Really interesting pictures.

Regards,

Gordon


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Originally Posted by sgtmonroe View Post
Here are a couple of more images showing the alleged "fine mesh" helmet net. I am still trying to find a true close up image of it.

Both of these images were taken at the same training grounds as the other picture and both are taken in 1957.

In the first image the Grenzoberjäger second from the right has the more common seen alleged "fine mesh" helmet net. This type is also seen being worn in other images. It appears that this type of helmet net has a strip of fabric that is sewn through it. The Grenzjäger at the far right appears to have some form of fine mesh helmet net different from the other two types!



In this next image [taken in 1957 as stated above] the Grenzoberjäger holding the MG42 has the alleged "fine mesh" helmet net. Also note the Grenzoberjäger at the far right, with the practice Stielhandgranate ["potato masher"], is wearing a pair of the first issue canvas G1 magazine pouches. It is hard to tell but I believe the Grenzoberjäger second from the left, holding his G1 up, is also wearing the canvas pouches. Just for information sake the G1 rifles are the Modell b variation.

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Old 10-21-2009, 06:25 PM   #62
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One thing that confuse me is the issue of socalled "Kokonuß-Feldflaschen". I received one with my 1. Model uniform a couple months ago and it is very different from TJ's. Then I looked at fotos and I see canteens are like mine. So what is coconut canteen with large cup and canvas strap? I have only seen one other - on ebay.de last year.

The canteen is marked HRE57, so made 1957 by Heinrich Ritter, Esslingen. Straps are black leather, cup is identical to one of my BGS M31 canteens.





In wear, ca. 1957. Soldiers appear to wear Arbeitsanzug like sgtmonroe posted earlier with splittertarn Zeltbahn over.

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Old 10-22-2009, 03:01 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klaus1989 View Post
One thing that confuse me is the issue of socalled "Kokonuß-Feldflaschen". I received one with my 1. Model uniform a couple months ago and it is very different from TJ's. Then I looked at fotos and I see canteens are like mine. So what is coconut canteen with large cup and canvas strap? I have only seen one other - on ebay.de last year.
Klaus, your canteen is correct BGS issue. The canteen T.J. shows with his equipment has the early 2nd pattern BUNDESWEHR issue cup on it [any reason why T.J.?].

My post-war "Kokonuß" has the first pattern strap assembly similar to the wartime issue one. I'll post images when I get some taken of it... but for now here are some images of a 1955 dated BGS canteen that was up on eBay.de last month - I bid - but alas lost. It has the second pattern web strap system like your leather one.










Last edited by sgtmonroe; 10-22-2009 at 03:22 PM.
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Old 10-22-2009, 03:18 PM   #64
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Here are a couple of images of my first pattern Kokonuß feldflasche. It has the more complicated Wehrmacht-type strap assembly which was replaced with the simplier version seen in the previous post and on Klaus' feldflasche [with his being leather].

I have yet to find a cup for it as when I bought it there was an East German one on it! Sorry the images are so bad...I need a new camera!!!



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Old 10-23-2009, 06:11 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgtmonroe View Post


Reviewing this thread I noticed the stamp in the upper left corner of this picture, punched in the lace holding the D-ring of a G1 ammopouch...and identified it as identical with the stamp on my RG34 shown some posts above. This made my curious ... after a little bit of research I´m shure that this symbol belongs to the BePo of Hamburg! So both items are not BGS but BePo, showing once more the standardisation of equipment.

Also I aquired some of the MP magazin pouches made of green fabric with black leather mountings... out of a bigger box two maintypes showed up. A perhaps older type only stamped "THW" on the D-ring lace and a younger one stamped with a NSN on right beltloop. Only two single pouches were different. One showing a ink stamp in the middle section (NSN etc, but no date) and one showing the makers mark and the date "1974" on the middle lace! Pictures will follow...

Regards,

Jens
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Old 10-23-2009, 12:38 PM   #66
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sgt. monroe,
no idea there were three models of Kokonuß-Feldflasche in BGS! Especially strange considering M31 type canteens (first BGS canteen) continued manufacture until at least 1960...

Any more details on your breadbag in photo? Is marked BGS? I have seen several different types that all claim to be early BGS breadbag but uncertain which is correct.

regards
Klaus
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Old 10-31-2009, 09:27 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asbjoern View Post
This made my curious ... after a little bit of research I´m shure that this symbol belongs to the BePo of Hamburg! So both items are not BGS but BePo, showing once more the standardisation of equipment.
Jens,

You are 100% correct. I forgot to mention that the pair [I have a matching set] of G1 ammunition pouches are both marked with the Hamburg Polizei symbol [both are marked in the same place]. I have a large quantity of G1 pouches and these were the only ones I had marked with polizei markings...
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Old 10-31-2009, 09:32 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klaus1989 View Post
Especially strange considering M31 type canteens (first BGS canteen) continued manufacture until at least 1960...
The latest date I have seen on a M31 feldflasche is 1960. I have images showing the M31 feldflasche being used as late as 1963!

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Any more details on your breadbag in photo? Is marked BGS? I have seen several different types that all claim to be early BGS breadbag but uncertain which is correct.
There are no markings on it. It is very similar to a 1962 dated polizei bread bag I have. So it may be polizei and not BGS - I just like it and have had it for a long time. I used to participate in Second World War reenacting and I used that bread bag for the entire time I reenacted [I did not want to use my original Wehrmacht bread bag "in the field"!].
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Old 11-02-2009, 03:41 AM   #69
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O.K. here are the pictures of the SMG magpouches:


The TWH stamped version:

The possible youngest Version with the NSN stamp:

The onle ink stamped pouch out of a lot of around 40 pouches:

The only dated pouch out of this lot:


...and yes, also MP 5 magazins where carried in this pouches. This information comes from a "vet" who served in the BGS around the year 1979!

Jens
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Old 11-02-2009, 11:41 AM   #70
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Asbjoern,
Nice pouches. Four loops seems too much though! I had one but sold it recently. The magazine pouches were also used for MPL and MPK (but these stop use in 1970s).

sgtmonroe,
thanks for information about breadbag. Could be Polizei. The early breadbag issue is very confusing. That is first time I see postwar breadbag with leather around button holes like that.

regards
Klaus
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Old 11-03-2009, 08:49 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klaus1989 View Post
Asbjoern,
Nice pouches. Four loops seems too much though! I had one but sold it recently.

Yes, the four loops are unique to SMG pouches...the only clue is that the four beltloops plus the D-ring should give the wearer the possibility to attach one singel pouch to the belt without Y strap by using the upper pair of loops (then gravity will prevent them from turning over) and as "full set" combined with the Y strap, now using the lower looks tho wear them higher - in ths case the complete pack is more rigid so it would be very inconvenient to lean foreward if the upper loops where used....
I`m curious if this theory is acknowledged somedays...

Jens

P.S. Klaus, if you regret the loss of your pouch one day .... there are much more at the place where those pictured by me came from... At the moment I´m tracking some more sources for BGS stuff here in the Bonn area...
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Old 11-09-2009, 07:10 PM   #72
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Klaus, your canteen is correct BGS issue. The canteen T.J. shows with his equipment has the early 2nd pattern BUNDESWEHR issue cup on it [any reason why T.J.?].

sgt munroe - I purchased as is and it seems as if it was issued this way. I need to pull it out again and take another look.

This is a very intriguing piece of gear. As always, I feel as though we are contributing new knowledge to this collecting field.

All the best - TJ
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Old 11-18-2009, 07:37 PM   #73
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Klaus - I still owe you feedback on early BGS / BW mess tins. I'm off next week and will pull out that box and take some photos.

In the meantime, this BGS tin recently appeared on Manions. Its a PSL 61, clearly intended for issue to the BGS. This tin is 6.75 inches tall.

Talk to you soon - TJ
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Old 12-07-2009, 08:17 AM   #74
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interestingt thread !
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Old 12-07-2009, 08:55 PM   #75
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Der Wölfe - Welcome to the forum. I'm glad you enjoyed this thread with its rare pictures of early BGS Jaegers in the field. It's one of my favorites too.

Please visit us often and don't be afraid to contribute your knowledge and information.

All the best - TJ
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