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Bundesrepublik Deutschland, 1949-Present From West Germany through to the modern reunified German Republic.

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Old 01-01-2008, 04:31 PM   #61
Guardian 5
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The more commonly seen BGS field flask is seen at the end of the row in this picture. Presumably, the gray canteen is for the THW. I'm not sure what agency used the tan model.
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Old 01-01-2008, 04:33 PM   #62
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I also came across this tan mess kit. Again, I'm not sure what agency would have used it.
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Old 01-01-2008, 05:36 PM   #63
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The tan one is THW canteen from the early 1960s. I have one just like it and the bottom of the canteen is marked "PSL 62 THW" but the bottom of the cup is marked "PSL 62 ZB". THW and ZB were issued some of the same field gear though and otherwise the codes match. Just unzip the cover and look on bottom of canteen and dish/cup thing.

regards,
Klaus
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Old 01-02-2008, 10:08 PM   #64
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I received my BGS Mantel today and it is great new addition but missing insignia as usual Also missing 2 buttons on front and shoulderboard buttons but pair Anwärter Schulterstücke were thrown in by seller.

I have couple questions about fixing it up:

1. Are shoulderboard buttons the same as chest buttons or different? Stephan has shoulderboard ones but not chest, so where can I get chest buttons if different?

2. Was embroidered or woven arm patch in use in 1966 (year marked "66" on maker tag) on the Mantel? I do know it has traces of the two piece model. I have the woven type like used on Tarnjacke. Once again would like to know where to get if woven not usable - this time Stephan is too expensive (E10,00 for shield + E15,00 for BGS arc).

regards,
Klaus
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Old 01-03-2008, 05:46 PM   #65
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Klaus - According to this undated source, the large arch woven on felt is indicated for the greatcoat.

Missing coat buttons seem like a tough item to source; good luck.

TJ
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Old 01-03-2008, 06:41 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian 5 View Post
Klaus - According to this undated source, the large arch woven on felt is indicated for the greatcoat.

Missing coat buttons seem like a tough item to source; good luck.

TJ
TJ, The source is page 198 of NATO Forces an Illustrated Reference to the Organization and Insignia by Brian L. Davis, 1988. It's a very handy book that I picked up at the Stars and Stripes Bookstore while stationed in Germany. Here is the description of the BGS from the book:

Formed in 1951, the Bundesgrenzschutz performs an important duty in the policing of the borders and the defense of the Federal Republic, both on land and on water. Today the Border Protection Police undertake a variety of tasks raging from their original function to uphold or to restore public safety and order within the Federal frontier regions, through the supervision of frontier traffic at border crossing points (1953) to its most recent role, that of a special federal police force with security functions within the interior of the Federal Republic (1973). In the event of armed conflict, the Border Guard commands, the units and the task forces, including the "Grenzschutzschule" would be assigned to the Federal German armed forces, the members of the Bundesgrenzschutz being classed as combatants but with their function to perform its policing duties.

The now famous GSG-9, the Federal Border Guard Group 9 Special, staffed by Grenzschutz personnel was established on 26 September 1972 in the wake of the "Black September" Palestine terrorist attack on the Israel athletes at the Munich Olympics of that year.

Last edited by ehrentitle; 01-03-2008 at 06:53 PM.
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Old 01-03-2008, 09:26 PM   #67
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Kevin - Thanks for the back-up!

TJ
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Old 01-03-2008, 11:15 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SprogCollector View Post
This is an excellent question. I picked up my Schirmmütze which was listed as BGS from 1957 -- supposedly from the owners granddaughter. Mine has the Staatswappen in wreath and Kokarde above it. However, I've been told this is a Zoll cap.

BGS have used two different hat insignia. First was the two piece Bundes Adler & Wreath Cockade. The second was the Starburst shield with Bundes Adler in center. Actually the old Adler badge is still used on the GSG9 beret.

That is in fact the Zoll Emblem on the cap. They used the Wreath / Adler design and it is often mislabled as BGS. Probably in part to so many "frontier" pics showing them working side by side.

Andrew

Last edited by Huntzman; 01-03-2008 at 11:34 PM.
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Old 01-03-2008, 11:20 PM   #69
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Anyone interested in seeing other BGS uniform insignia are invited to check out my collection:

http://www.huntzmanpatches.com/germa...polizei(C).htm

I regret that I have not had a chance to update it. I still need to add my rank and a bunch of other insignia pieces I have added in the last few months.

Prior to 1994, the BGS had military status. With the changes in the BGS' mission brought about by the EU and open borders they went through a reorganization and technically came to an end in July 2005 when the the "Bundes Polizei" officially came into existance. Please feel free to ask any questions.

Best wishes,
Andrew

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Old 01-04-2008, 12:08 PM   #70
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The coat buttons are the same "Extra Fein" buttons used on private purchase WH tunics and Waffenrocks, so I will probably just substitute those. Still looking for less costly source for the shoulder patch though.

Klaus
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Old 01-04-2008, 01:04 PM   #71
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Klaus

That is an absolutely outrageous price being charged for the BGS Tab / Eagle Patch (25 EU / 37 USD) !!!!

I have a buddy in the BPol (BGS) and I'll see if he can get an old wool set for you.

Andrew
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Old 01-07-2008, 04:38 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huntzman View Post
Anyone interested in seeing other BGS uniform insignia are invited to check out my collection:

http://www.huntzmanpatches.com/germa...polizei(C).htm

I regret that I have not had a chance to update it. I still need to add my rank and a bunch of other insignia pieces I have added in the last few months.

Prior to 1994, the BGS had military status. With the changes in the BGS' mission brought about by the EU and open borders they went through a reorganization and technically came to an end in July 2005 when the the "Bundes Polizei" officially came into existance. Please feel free to ask any questions.

Best wishes,
Andrew
Andrew - Awesome collection!

As you can see on this thread, we've been struggling with a host of questions on BGS insignia and uniforms. I don't know about the other guys, but I'm preparing a bunch of inqueries.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge and your pictures, you'll be hearing from me soon.


TJ
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Old 01-07-2008, 05:15 PM   #73
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TJ

Thanks so much for your kind comments. I'm a little behind on the website and I'm in the middle of preparing the next update.

I have been collecting German Police insignia for twenty years (with a hiatus from 1998-2001 due to a divorce). Actually I had sold off my German collection to pay for the attorney, so what you see is less than 50% of what I had originally had.

Feel free to ask any questions. If I don't know it, I have a number of friends in the BGS who can help.

Happy Collecting !!

Andrew
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Old 01-07-2008, 05:16 PM   #74
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Damn Double Post

Last edited by Huntzman; 01-07-2008 at 05:18 PM. Reason: Happy Fingers
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Old 01-21-2008, 05:41 PM   #75
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Finally here is my BGS Mantel. It is still incomplete as I bought it from seller. Missing BGS-Ärmelbinde which clearly used to be present, last pair of chest buttons, shoulderboard buttons and shoulderboards (seller included unattched pair of Grenzjäger des BGS shoulderboards) that were obviously removed. Just won large lot of 17 and 21 mm West German pebbled buttons off ebay that is in the mail. I will take to tailor to sew on patch and shoulderboards. Will post photos later when it is complete. Named to Helmut Wortmann.

Manufacturer label:
C. LOUIS WEBER
AUFTR: 225/ 66
166
104/42

regards,
Klaus


Last edited by Klaus1989; 06-20-2008 at 09:42 PM.
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