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JFS destroyer- variant hinge! |
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05-31-2012, 07:33 PM
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#1
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Association Member
Patrick W is offline
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Location: Southern England
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JFS destroyer- variant hinge!
Here is an interesting badge I picked up recently. Everything about it appears to be an original JFS destroyer but it has a sheet metal hinge as opposed to the usual ball type with crimping. Having looked at it closely this is not a repair- there is no evidence of grinding down a broken crimp and the finish on the hinge is the same toned gilding as on the reverse of the badge.
I found one single other example which was assessed as a repaired original with the exact same type of pin setup, again this one shows no obvious signs of actual repair
http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...fs+sheet+hinge
As such I think we can conclude that this is a legitimate albeit very rare variant and that at some point very late on either
1. The crimping device for the hinge failed (as we see on RS&S luft clasps, round crimp PABs etc)
2. They ran out of ball hinges so utilised sheet metal for a short run.
Here it is....
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Best regards, Patrick
"Rein muss er" und wenn wir beide weinen! - Personal inscription of Oblt Klaus Faber, JV44 Papagei Staffel
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05-31-2012, 07:34 PM
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#2
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Association Member
Patrick W is offline
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,,
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Best regards, Patrick
"Rein muss er" und wenn wir beide weinen! - Personal inscription of Oblt Klaus Faber, JV44 Papagei Staffel
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05-31-2012, 07:35 PM
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#3
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Association Member
Patrick W is offline
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...
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Best regards, Patrick
"Rein muss er" und wenn wir beide weinen! - Personal inscription of Oblt Klaus Faber, JV44 Papagei Staffel
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05-31-2012, 08:17 PM
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#4
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Forums Moderator
Thomas Durante is online now
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Hi Patrick,
I think the badge you show and the one in that other thread, are the exact same badge! Notice many of the same exact nicks and dings on both badges. But there are some differences such as the condition of the pin (yours is quite rusty, but yet on the other picture its neat and clean, which is weird). And the finish doesn't look like an exact match, but that could just be due to the different lighting.
At a minimum, I think both pictures are of the exact same badge. Even the circular cut on the base of the hinge is the same, so I think we are looking at one and the same badge here.
To me, that would deflate the "variant hinge" theory. You can see evidence of heating around the hinge which would suggest a replacement IMO. If this was something done at the factory, you would expect the gold finish to cover this soldering and the hinge and pin, etc. Just like it does with the catch, but this isn't what I see.
Tom
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If it doesn't have a hinge and catch, I'm not interested......well, maybe a little
The German Luftwaffe & Heer Paratrooper Badges of World War II
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05-31-2012, 08:49 PM
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#5
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Association Member
Patrick W is offline
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Hi Tom- great eye! hadn't noticed those same marks, now I'm scratching my head! I don't think they are the same badge as there are many marks on Jimmy's badge that aren't on mine and noticeable differences to the wear and loss of finish etc- look at the inner edge of the antenna on Jimmys and there is an overspill of zinc which mine doesn't have.
Jimmy- do you still have that badge?
It doesn't show any casting seam so maybe damages to the reverse die? Jimmy's badge was only posted a couple of months back so I don't know how we could be dealing with the same badge with such changes... new fake???
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Best regards, Patrick
"Rein muss er" und wenn wir beide weinen! - Personal inscription of Oblt Klaus Faber, JV44 Papagei Staffel
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05-31-2012, 09:19 PM
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#6
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Member
TerryK is offline
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Location: Marion Ohio
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Hi
I have this same maker badge. It has the exact same pits and marks as shown on
both above badges. Also hinge and catch are the same. I thought these were proven to be fakes?
Terry
Last edited by TerryK; 05-31-2012 at 10:05 PM.
Reason: misspelled word
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06-01-2012, 06:53 AM
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#7
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Forums Moderator
Thomas Durante is online now
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Hi guys,
Patrick, take a look at this thread. The JFS has the same type of hinge and also all the same dings and pock marks as your badge (and Jimmy's), not a good sign I'm afraid:
http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...+jfs+destroyer
Tom
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If it doesn't have a hinge and catch, I'm not interested......well, maybe a little
The German Luftwaffe & Heer Paratrooper Badges of World War II
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06-01-2012, 08:39 AM
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#8
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Norm F is offline
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Hi Guys,
Tom's astute observations are re-inventing the wheel!  Here's the older thread from 2005 with Lorenzo Brown's good data on these fakes. They're very well done.
JFS Destroyer Badge
Best regards,
---Norm
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06-01-2012, 10:14 AM
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#9
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Member
TerryK is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norm F
Hi Guys,
Tom's astute observations are re-inventing the wheel! Here's the older thread from 2005 with Lorenzo Brown's good data on these fakes. They're very well done.
JFS Destroyer Badge
Best regards,
---Norm |
Hi Norm
That is the thread where I found out mine was bad. Thanks for listing it.
Terry
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06-01-2012, 10:18 AM
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#10
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Association Member
Patrick W is offline
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Well that nails it then- thanks guys and great observations Tom. Into the fakes box it goes!
__________________
Best regards, Patrick
"Rein muss er" und wenn wir beide weinen! - Personal inscription of Oblt Klaus Faber, JV44 Papagei Staffel
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06-01-2012, 10:37 AM
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#11
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Bob Hritz is offline
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These were made by the late Phil Weber of Saxony House from Mokena, Illinois.
Bob Hritz
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COLLECTING HEER FLAK-ARTILLERY SHOULDER BOARDS OF ALL RANKS
In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.
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06-01-2012, 02:02 PM
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#12
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Association Member
Norm F is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Hritz
These were made by the late Phil Weber of Saxony House from Mokena, Illinois.
Bob Hritz
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Very interesting Bob. Thanks for that. Do you know of any other products by this particular "maker"?
Best regards,
---Norm
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06-01-2012, 05:51 PM
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#13
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Lifetime Member
Bob Hritz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norm F
Very interesting Bob. Thanks for that. Do you know of any other products by this particular "maker"?
Best regards,
---Norm
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Phil made hundreds of types of medals, badges and awards. I will dig around and see if I have any of his old catalogues.
Bob Hritz
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COLLECTING HEER FLAK-ARTILLERY SHOULDER BOARDS OF ALL RANKS
In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.
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