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Strange Bayern MVO 4. Klasse mit Schwertern
Old 07-30-2017, 06:19 AM   #1
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Default Strange Bayern MVO 4. Klasse mit Schwertern

I was at a show last weekend and I picked up a couple of nice Bavarian medals. This is my first MVO 4th class which is one that I have wanted for some time. However, as I check it against others shown here on WAF, the way the swords are attached seems strange, little details differ and it only has a silver mark of "935" on it, no maker marking.

Is it a fake or a variation type ?

Any help would be appreciated because I have the right to return it if I am not happy,

Chris
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Old 07-30-2017, 06:21 AM   #2
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silver mark and ribbon
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Old 08-03-2017, 05:17 PM   #3
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a/ Another example 1 of the swords applied this way.

Same maker as my MVO 4. Klasse mit Schwertern ?

Chris
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Old 08-03-2017, 05:19 PM   #4
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b/ Another example 1 of the swords applied this way.

Same maker as my MVO 4. Klasse mit Schwertern ?

Chris
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Old 08-04-2017, 02:10 AM   #5
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I really can't help you with an answer to your question. I can only says "it looks good" and that's nothing of a valid answer from me.

However I do know that on GMIC there's one guy who knows a lot of Bavarian decorations, it's variations and fakes.
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Old 08-04-2017, 03:03 AM   #6
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There were five makers of MVK in the awarding period (Hemmerle, Leser, Deschler, Weiss & Lauer), but none of them has mounted swords in this method. Their swords were always on a bolt.
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Old 08-04-2017, 03:57 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tompress View Post
in the awarding period
Yes the bolt is what I've as well seen on these awarded ones.
The question is, is this a fake or perhaps a private purchase piece after the war?
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Old 08-04-2017, 06:27 AM   #8
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OK, I try to ask on German forum and let you know later or may be an expert comes here

Last edited by tompress; 08-04-2017 at 06:33 AM.
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Old 08-04-2017, 02:22 PM   #9
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OK; I have some new informations: such crosses are known, namely as Spangenstücke = privete purchased wearer's copies for medal bar. Possibly fabrication period are 1920s-30s, manufacturer not identified

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Old 08-05-2017, 02:16 AM   #10
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Good information Tomasz!
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Old 08-06-2017, 04:16 PM   #11
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Many thanks to those who have posted or PM me about this medal.

"1920's - 30's Spangenstücke = private purchase" makes sense. It has a good weight of "935" silver to it and is quality made.

I am happy to keep it in my collection. However, they are a lovely medal and I will now have to find the known makers to display beside it and compare with it

Chris
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Old 08-08-2017, 02:25 AM   #12
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How many makers used 935 silver? I can think of Deumer and S&L. Any others?

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Old 08-08-2017, 03:40 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich G View Post
How many makers used 935 silver? I can think of Deumer and S&L. Any others?

Rich
Before 1914 almost all makers used .935 silver. Up to 1916 it was standard alloy i.e for Iron Crosses frames (but the content mark was often not stamped), later also .800 was used
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Old 08-08-2017, 08:08 AM   #14
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But we are talking about the 20s and 30s...

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Old 08-09-2017, 04:22 PM   #15
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Quote:
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But we are talking about the 20s and 30s...

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Thank you for your input. Very interesting point about German "935" silver. At this stage, 1920's-30's production seems to be the most likely explanation as per the advanced collectors who collected this medal seriously over the years.

However, I suppose that explanation is not cast in stone and open to more investigation/ research. Manufacturer by "Deumer and S&L" must be considered and also the time period in which they would have made this medal if they did make it,

Chris
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