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Old 11-28-2017, 06:03 AM   #16
Antonio Scapini
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With this you confirm that the back plates come from the same supplier. This is another proof that support that different makers used the same back plates.
This cannot in any case lead us to think that Orth produced those shields.

Those signs on the prongs are interesting, but since they are found in 2 different shields they are a big problem too.
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Old 11-28-2017, 06:29 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antonio Scapini View Post
Maybe we can find some flaw in the bending prongs process that can confirm what you say?
Hello Antonio.
What do you dislike about this defect?
1. Kuban
2. Krim Post 12
3. Krim Post 12
4. Krim Ort.


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Old 11-28-2017, 06:36 AM   #18
Pascal H.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antonio Scapini View Post
With this you confirm that the back plates come from the same supplier. This is another proof that support that different makers used the same back plates.
This cannot in any case lead us to think that Orth produced those shields.

Those signs on the prongs are interesting, but since they are found in 2 different shields they are a big problem too.
That depends. If these back plates are ONLY found on the FO Krim shield and this type of Kuban shield and NO other Krim or Kuban shields, then it is IMO very likely that either;
- an independent manufacturer provided these backing plate only to FO
- FO produced these backing plates themselves and used then on their Krim and Kuban shields.

If these backing plates are ONLY found in these type of shields then the theory that there were two independent manufacturers is IMO unlikely as this would mean that FO only produced Krim shields and an unknown manufacturer in the same area would only produce Kuban shields.

Kr
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Old 11-28-2017, 06:39 AM   #19
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Maybe I misunderstood something.
Let me explain so the discussion become clearer:

we have to distinguish from:
1) flaws on the prongs of the shield
2) shape of the back plate

My question are:
1) are the flaws on the prongs present only on 1 type of Kuban and 1 type of Krim (Orth)? Or did you find them even in other shields?

2) The shape of the back plate is the same in Orth krim, in 1 type of Kuban and in another type of Kirm. Right? (This cannot prove anything, only that different makers used the same supplier for back plates).
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Old 11-28-2017, 07:10 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antonio Scapini View Post
Maybe I misunderstood something.
Let me explain so the discussion become clearer:

we have to distinguish from:
1) flaws on the prongs of the shield
2) shape of the back plate
Antonio flaws on the prongs of the shield + shape of the back plate = On all four shields!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Antonio Scapini View Post

My question are:
1) are the flaws on the prongs present only on 1 type of Kuban and 1 type of Krim (Orth)? Or did you find them even in other shields?

2) The shape of the back plate is the same in Orth krim, in 1 type of Kuban and in another type of Kirm. Right? (This cannot prove anything, only that different makers used the same supplier for back plates).
The flaws on the prongs present On all four shields!

I hope that this will be more understandable.







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Old 11-28-2017, 08:29 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antonio Scapini View Post
Maybe I misunderstood something.
Let me explain so the discussion become clearer:

we have to distinguish from:
1) flaws on the prongs of the shield
2) shape of the back plate

My question are:
1) are the flaws on the prongs present only on 1 type of Kuban and 1 type of Krim (Orth)? Or did you find them even in other shields?

2) The shape of the back plate is the same in Orth krim, in 1 type of Kuban and in another type of Kirm. Right? (This cannot prove anything, only that different makers used the same supplier for back plates).
Hi Antonio,
I think it was me who misunderstood Железный.

If the shape of the backplate is the same on 2 or more different type of Krim shields then I follow your theory that the back plates were supplied by the same supplier to different Krim manufacturers.

Kr
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Old 11-28-2017, 08:42 AM   #22
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Pascal, than we can explain flaws on the prongs of the all shields?
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Old 11-28-2017, 09:11 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Железный View Post
Pascal, than we can explain flaws on the prongs of the all shields?
This question is more complicated.
And possible solutions are really many. We know about cooperations from different manfacturers, so everything is possible. Maybe they bought 4 identical trimming machines from a supplier... Who knows?

Anway this open a big door in the shields field. You opened the Pandora's vase!
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Old 11-28-2017, 10:53 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antonio Scapini View Post
Maybe they bought 4 identical trimming machines from a supplier... Who knows?
This can not be. This is a defect of one machine.
Occam's razor
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Old 11-28-2017, 11:45 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Железный View Post
This can not be. This is a defect of one machine.
Occam's razor
So in your opinion 2 different type of Krim shields were made by Orth?

Kr
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Old 11-28-2017, 11:53 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pascal H. View Post
So in your opinion 2 different type of Krim shields were made by Orth?

Kr
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Maybe.
I'm just sure that the cutting machine was one.
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Old 11-28-2017, 12:00 PM   #27
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Everything could be. Is it also possible that one trimming machine was sold from a firm to another...
We can only speculate on this.
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Old 11-28-2017, 01:15 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antonio Scapini View Post
Everything could be. Is it also possible that one trimming machine was sold from a firm to another...
We can only speculate on this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Железный View Post
2. Orth sold some machines to someone and made them different, so there is no stigma, but they are all original for the period ww2.
I considered this option in post 15. With the same probability, these shields could be manufactured by FO.

Last edited by Железный; 11-28-2017 at 02:43 PM.
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Old 11-28-2017, 01:29 PM   #29
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Similarly produced plates for shields. There can not be one defect on the three punching stamps!

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Old 11-29-2017, 03:16 AM   #30
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There are many possibilities as why this happened.
I think the conclusion of this thread is that both type of Krim shields are definite war time made.
However there is no way that one can say that both type of Krim shields are 100% made by Orth (but they could).

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