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KW 27 and Z.m.P.
Old 02-11-2018, 03:12 PM   #1
Fred Green
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Default KW 27 and Z.m.P.

Hello,

I am putting together an officers map case. I looked in the Saez book "Deutsche Soldaten" and he gave some information on the K.W. 27 and none on the Z.m.P. Can anybody tell/ me what was in these 2 little bags?

Any and all help is greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Fred
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Old 02-11-2018, 03:56 PM   #2
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i can help - dont take that book to serios...
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Old 02-11-2018, 04:49 PM   #3
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Hello,

A large grain of salt with that book, but at least he did show them. I was wondering what exactly was in each pouch and what specifically they were used for. Thanks again.

Fred
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Old 02-11-2018, 05:08 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Green View Post
Hello,

A large grain of salt with that book, but at least he did show them. I was wondering what exactly was in each pouch and what specifically they were used for. Thanks again.

Fred
Well, you say you wanna put together a mapcase. So you dont need those, as they dont belong into a mapcase. They are neither meant for, nor fit.
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Old 02-11-2018, 05:19 PM   #5
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Hello,

Nice information .Where were these stored then? What was carried in the map case.

Fred
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Old 02-11-2018, 05:29 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Green View Post
Hello,

Nice information .Where were these stored then? What was carried in the map case.

Fred
Here we had the same theme:
http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ighlight=tunic
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Old 02-11-2018, 05:38 PM   #7
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Fred,
I'm definitely no expert, so don't even know if there was a standard list of what to go in a map case. Here's some links that may help you though:

http://www.stewartsmilitaryantiques....53.archive.htm

http://histomil.com/viewtopic.php?t=226 (it looks to me like the KW 27 may just be for show and not part of the case?)

https://forum.axishistory.com//viewtopic.php?t=135393

Dale
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Old 02-11-2018, 06:30 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Gran Sasso View Post
Hello,

Great link! Is there a listing of what exactly went into the K.W. 27 and the Z. m. P.? Can you tell me the differences in the materials and what they were used for...Arty (call for fire), Orienteering ?

Thanks again.

Fred
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Old 02-11-2018, 06:33 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Stepdale View Post
Fred,
I'm definitely no expert, so don't even know if there was a standard list of what to go in a map case. Here's some links that may help you though:

http://www.stewartsmilitaryantiques....53.archive.htm

http://histomil.com/viewtopic.php?t=226 (it looks to me like the KW 27 may just be for show and not part of the case?)

https://forum.axishistory.com//viewtopic.php?t=135393

Dale

Hello Dale,

Thanks a lot. I noticed that the Stewarts map case has neither of the items that I am looking at. Nice lot of maps, map covering sheets and pencils.

I am still looking for the exact contents of both of these pouches and specific uses also.

Fred
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Old 02-11-2018, 09:39 PM   #10
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Fred,
Other than the list taken from Angolia and Schlict shown in the last thread I posted above, I couldn't find any kind of standard list of items to go in the cases. I suspect a lot of it was individual preference based on experience, things they were taught in their basic courses, and items they needed for their specific functional role. I know it's not the same, but during my time in the Army, other than the compasses, no other navigation items were issued. As officers, we bought all the permanent markers, protractors, etc, ourselves, or had the supply sergeant buy them to give out to the NCOs and EMs. I believe the Heer had a few more official items than the modern US Army, but other than specialty navigation and fire support tools, a lot of the items that went in the cases were probably of civilian manufacture.
Dale
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Old 02-12-2018, 12:58 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Green View Post
Hello,

Great link! Is there a listing of what exactly went into the K.W. 27 and the Z. m. P.? Can you tell me the differences in the materials and what they were used for...Arty (call for fire), Orienteering ?

Thanks again.

Fred
Hello,
The best photos I've seen on this forum of templates & pouches came from the "herr x" collection. I beleive the contents as shown (on these late-war versions) are correct.
SF Mike
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Old 02-12-2018, 07:56 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Green View Post
Hello,

Great link! Is there a listing of what exactly went into the K.W. 27 and the Z. m. P.? Can you tell me the differences in the materials and what they were used for...Arty (call for fire), Orienteering ?

Thanks again.

Fred
Mike already posted pics of the contents.

Z.m.P. = Zielgevierttafel mit Planzeiger

K.W. = Kartenwinkelmesser

Both used by all troops, suitable for map reading, checking distances, asking for fire support, etc.
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Old 02-12-2018, 08:37 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stepdale View Post
Fred,
Other than the list taken from Angolia and Schlict shown in the last thread I posted above, I couldn't find any kind of standard list of items to go in the cases. I suspect a lot of it was individual preference based on experience, things they were taught in their basic courses, and items they needed for their specific functional role. I know it's not the same, but during my time in the Army, other than the compasses, no other navigation items were issued. As officers, we bought all the permanent markers, protractors, etc, ourselves, or had the supply sergeant buy them to give out to the NCOs and EMs. I believe the Heer had a few more official items than the modern US Army, but other than specialty navigation and fire support tools, a lot of the items that went in the cases were probably of civilian manufacture.
Dale

Sorry, Fred, in my reply I was talking about the map case in particular and not these individual pouches. I guess I was a bit foggy in reading what you were asking, please forgive me for my brain fart!
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Old 02-12-2018, 08:53 AM   #14
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Id say for mapcase you need the sleeve insert, Deckungswinkelmesser (most expensive part), pencils, ruler, pencil sharpener, eraser, a sketch-block, and of course some maps.
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Old 02-12-2018, 01:56 PM   #15
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Here's a nice one with the original contents but in blue webbing: https://fjm44.com/product/complete-z...-canvas-pouch/

PS, ZMP stands for Zielschablone mit Planzeiger
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