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Flag, Pennant and Standarte Forum Wehrmacht, Political and Organizational Standards, flags, and car pennants.

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Old 11-05-2017, 05:12 PM   #91
der-hase-fee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldflagswanted View Post

OFW
(below) And from elsewhere online...
http://www.johnnyg.whsites.net/sp108.html
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Old 11-05-2017, 05:35 PM   #92
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A very rare opportunity...if only I had the money...!!

Nice to see such an artifact available!

Br. James
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Old 11-05-2017, 07:19 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldflagswanted View Post
??? How about more info ???
OFW
(below) And from elsewhere online...

Is it just me or does this set look odd. Is the rope around the tress on the Swaz because there are different types. The ones I'm familiar with have the flat double ribbed black border instead of the rope look. Maybe it is just a variation from a different type. They both look new and the top doesn't seem to have any age or variation either.

Compare them to the set Brian is holding below. Maybe I'm wrong but something just seemed off, wanted to get your thoughts.

DMS
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DE Banner Variations ???
Old 11-06-2017, 12:04 AM   #94
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Default DE Banner Variations ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMS View Post
Is it just me or does this set look odd. Is the rope
around the tress on the Swaz because there are
different types. The ones I'm familiar with have the
flat double ribbed black border instead of the rope
look. Maybe it is just a variation from a different type.
They both look new and the top doesn't seem to have
any age or variation either.

Compare them to the set Brian is holding below. Maybe
I'm wrong but something just seemed off, wanted to get
your thoughts.

DMS
Hello DMS:
Interesting observations. As with the DE eagle top legs
and pole tube screw hole differences discussed in this
thread, it appears that we are now seeing some slight
banner differences too. With only a few dozen surviving
out of some ~ 557 across pole SA/SS hung DE types made,
likely more variations would be found if more had survived.
OFW
(below) Some DE banner variations ???
Attached Images
File Type: jpg de-circle-edge-compare2x.jpg (137.4 KB, 177 views)
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Old 11-06-2017, 03:12 AM   #95
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Mine had the mesh style around the disc and the soutache style swastika edging. I've noticed that some have the Tresse sewn on by hand and some have it machine stitched. I haven't seen one with the ribbed Tresse around the disc, but I've only seen maybe 15 over the years, so not much of a sampling. As I recall, all that I've seen had the mesh Tresse.
Erich
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Pole top
Old 11-10-2017, 04:16 PM   #96
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Default Pole top

Sorry for the late reply OFW.It was just the pole top.I still remember what it felt like in my hands.
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Old 11-10-2017, 07:43 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldflagswanted View Post
Hello DMS:
Interesting observations. As with the DE eagle top legs
and pole tube screw hole differences discussed in this
thread, it appears that we are now seeing some slight
banner differences too. With only a few dozen surviving
out of some ~ 557 across pole SA/SS hung DE types made,
likely more variations would be found if more had survived.
OFW
(below) Some DE banner variations ???
Hello OFW,

At first I was looking at the DE and the top to see what the price was and if I might be interested. I couldn't put my finger on it but for some reason something kept looking odd to me. That was when I noticed the rope around the outside of the swaz, which I had never seen before.

So I was wanted to see what you and others thought. I think part of what was drawing my attention we're both pieces looking brand new as well. On the DE, I don't believe I have ever seen a Center that white. On the top, I was a little suspicious if maybe it had been refinished? As it looks new also. But if you look at the pictures at the bottom of the top with the gold is near that drew my attention as did the there being no definition or blackening to the leaves at all.

I am very curious that if you look at them very closely what your opinion is? Also, have you ever seen the rope instead of the usual tress? Do you think that it is odd to have no aging at all?
Really, I am trying to figure out if everything is on the up and up on these for our future benefit. As I certainly do not want to end up buying a super high-quality fake one day. You have much more experience than I do, so that's why I asked. I meant to send a couple pictures to a few friends and see what they think.

Best Regards,
DMS
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Old 11-10-2017, 08:58 PM   #98
Erich B.
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Speaking about the white field, the white silk on the example I had and others I've seen has never been ribbed--it's almost like a silk broadcloth being flat. The red silk is ribbed but not the white. There are a few other aspects that might be the photos or not--this would need to be seen in person IMO.
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Old 11-10-2017, 09:48 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich B. View Post
Speaking about the white field, the white silk on the example I had and others I've seen has never been ribbed--it's almost like a silk broadcloth being flat. The red silk is ribbed but not the white. There are a few other aspects that might be the photos or not--this would need to be seen in person IMO.
Erich
That is true, Sometimes cloth looks much more white in a photo then in person.

DMS
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DE Swastika Arm Edge, Rope vs. Cord ???
Old 11-10-2017, 10:23 PM   #100
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Default DE Swastika Arm Edge, Rope vs. Cord ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMS View Post
(post #84 DE banner)
... I noticed the rope around the outside of the swaz,
which I had never seen before. ... have you ever seen
the rope instead of the usual tress? ... Best Regards,
DMS
DMS:
As per my post #94, IMO there are
"slight banner differences",
which are to be seen in the 1920's early DE cloth banners -
the twist cord swastika arm edges being one of those. Yes,
I have seen rope looking twist cord used on "real" DE's (**).
OFW
(below) The ~ 716 DE presentations (from WAF t=252401), this
DE count includes also other than just across pole (*) DE hung types.

1923 4 SA* (type 1 banner, & type 1 top = screw in swastika on top)
1926 8 SA* (type 2 banner = embroidered disk background, t2 wms top)
1927 12 SA* (type 3 banner = solid white disk background, t2 wms top)
1929 24 SA* (type 3 banner ", after 1923 all tops weld mount swastikas)
1931 24 SA* (type 3 banner ", ") When twist cord use ended unknown. **
1933 118 SA* 8 SS* (type 3 banner, ", type 2 top 4 hole base)....
............... as after Sept 1933 NSDAP box side reversed .............
1934 126 SA*, 75 SS* (type 3 banner, type 3 top = 2 hole base)
1935 36 SA*, 7 SS* ", 23 SS(R) 10 SS(M) 28 NSKK (M35(R) cloth)
1936 25 SA*, 3 SS* ", 35 NSKK (M35(R) banner cloth)
1937 30 SA*, 1 SS* ", 34 NSKK (M35(R) cloth), 1 Polizei*
1938 42 SA*, 14 SS* ", 21 NSKK (M35(R) cloth, 16 NSFK (M35(R) cloth)
1942 1 SA* (Fritz Todt, reused Munich-II t1 cloth - OFW only known t1)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Totals: SA* 449, SS 141 (108*,23R,10M), NSKK(R) 118, Polizei*1, NSFK(R) 16
***********************
(below-2) DE banner swastika arm edge cord, center sewn -
not
(**). If (**) used until 1931, then only 72 DE banners = 13%
Attached Images
File Type: jpg de-white-post36-2-mesh.jpg (186.6 KB, 105 views)

Last edited by oldflagswanted; 11-10-2017 at 10:43 PM.
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Type four DE banner details ???
Old 11-15-2017, 06:10 AM   #101
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Default Type four DE banner details ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldflagswanted View Post
... OFW
(below) The ~ 716 DE presentations (from WAF t=252401), this
DE count includes also other than just across pole (*) DE hung types.
..
(below-2) DE banner swastika arm edge cord, center sewn - ...
WAF t=541397 post #314, $48K USD DE Banner swastika arm detail.
IMO a type four DE banner (most common seen) having center sewn
swastika arm edge cord, 1 of 558 (*) made, t4 = ~87% DE banners.
OFW
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File Type: jpg de-swaz-arm-detail-rd-48k-usd-x.jpg (123.9 KB, 176 views)
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